Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!

[ShadesOfGrey]

@bloodline

Thank you!  THANK YOU!  THANK YOU!!!

I'm not alone!  Some one else actually has the same opinion on this whole licensing issue as I do!  I don't seriously believe that Hyperion (and for that matter AI) would want to restrict the hardware their product (license revenue) will run on indefinitely.  The fact that everyone...  Err, well, almost everyone...  ...  ...  The fact that most everyone neglects to mention that the current license IS AN OEM license and not a RETAIL license drives me nuts!  The AI/Hyperion/Eyetch OEM license is no where near as Draconian as some other OEM licenses, yet everyone is so quick to judge AI/Hyperion/Eyetch on the assumption that the OEM license excludes the possibility of any other licensing terms.


@ Everyone else

The facts, yes the FACTS!

The facts are Genesi have not stated their official licensing terms.  Genesi have also made no substantive indication that they will support anything other than the Pegasos and phase 5 PPC boards w/G-REX PCI (produced ?largely? by hardware partnerDCE).  In effect, the Pegasos and G-REX are hardware dongles and thus provide hardware copy protection.  

The facts are that AI/Hyperion/Eyetech have not made it clear whether there will be no retail license.  Nor that a retail license will be an exact copy of the OEM license.  AI/Hyperion have stated that an OEM license with terms requiring hardware bundling and copy protection has been obtained by Eyetech for the AmigaOne.  AOS4 support for phase 5 (and potentially Elbox and Matay) PPC boards will be available, most probably, under similar terms as the OEM license.  In this case using the original Amiga as means of hardware copy protection dongle.

Until Genesi AND/OR AI/Hyperion/Eyetch explicitly confirm or deny licensing terms that are ultimately exclusive, the prejudice most stop!  


[Note: I want to re-iterate, my stance is not a pro/anti Genesi or AI/Hyperion/Eyetch one.  Regardless of percieved or implied bias.  I recognize the implied anti-Genesi bias in my post.  IT IS INTENTIONAL!  BUT IT IS NOT INTENDED TO ACTUALLY BE ANTI-GENESI!!!  It is there merely to highlight the fact that (to my knowledge) Genesi has no official licensing policy, as of yet!  I am willing to give both parties the benefit of the doubt.

Anyone ignoring this notice, is trolling merely for the sake of trolling.  Thus I will ignore them!]

[ShadesOfGrey]

mips_proc wrote:

is no where near as Draconian

ahhh but what other company that dosent make hardware... has romed their OS to one board?.....find one...

So, what's your point?  The OEM license would be OK if Hyperion or AI were making the hardware instead of Eyetech, or if Eyetech were developing the AOS4 instead of Hyperion?

At this stage of the game, the license restrictions are intended to maximize the revenues for all three companies and to limit their overhead (incl. development and end user support.  Yes by throttling the market).  Working in partnership.  Toward releasing a PPC based Amiga (if in name only) and Amiga OS.  But apparently that is unimportant.

So here are the only two solutions it seems you will accept.  

One, AI, Hyperion, and Eyetech merge into one entity.  AI goes back to making hardware under their Eyetech division, transitional OS development goes to their Hyperion division, and AI continues doing whatever the hell it is they're doing (supposedly AA/ADE/OS5).  Thereby making the OEM license 'Kosher'.

Two, AI, Hyperion, and Eyetech cease all development of any products.  Freeing up whatever IP they have acquired or created to the highest bidder.  With the Amiga name and original IP reverting back to Gateway.

<[color=FF0000]sarcasm-so-thick-you-couldn't-cut-it-with-a-20,000-terra-watt-narrow-beam-laser[/color]>
Yippee!  Wouldn't option number two be great!!!
<[color=FF0000]/sarcasm-so-thick-you-couldn't-cut-it-with-a-20,000-terra-watt-narrow-beam-laser[/color]>


FYI, anyone else wanting to grow the AOS4 hardware platform can negotiate a license...  So far, no one who has tried, has been turned down.  So your assertion that they (AI/Hyperion) have"romed their OS to one board", is inaccurate.  Now if they refuse additional applicants out of hand, then perhaps your statement will carry more validity.

At this rate, by the time another party decides to negotiate a license, the licensing situation will likely be moot.  Either option one or two above will come to pass, or the licensing terms themselves will have changed.

[ShadesOfGrey]

@Kronos

AINc has made it 100% clear that there wonb't be a retail version

Have they now, I'll have to take another look.

Both AInc and Eyetech have invested 0.0$ into OS4, and so I see no

And you know this how?  The way I see it, Eyetech are investing in AOS4 by producing (by whatever means) hardware for AOS4.  And the OEM license provides them the most protection.  I could argue that they also have taken the most risk.  I'll concede AI have had little to do with the development of AOS4.  Beyond licensing the trademark and source code to Hyperion, they've sat back and done nothing...  Well, except start a questionable fan club.

[ShadesOfGrey]

-D- wrote:
>In effect, the Pegasos and G-REXX are hardware
dongles and thus provide copy protection.

That's not even close to the same thing as a
specific ROM and OS coded to work together for
vague corpo reasons...besides, the intended
purpose of the G-REXX and Pegasos have nothing
to do with copy protection, unlike the A1/OS4
scenario. It's not an accurate comparison.

First how is it any different?  What, it's covert as opposed to overt?  I mean this sincerely, to my perception, Genesi's strategy is no different than AI/Hyperion/Eyetech's.  Since Genesi have (to my knowledge) made no statements regarding the licensing policy, I think it unfair to condemn AI/Hyperion/Eyetech.  I'm perfectly willing to support one, the other, or both.  But I won't support any until all the facts are out.

I can't disprove that the G-REX and Pegasos aren't means of copy protection.  So Genesi and DCE will have to.  Same with AI/Hyperion/Eyetech proving that they will only support the current OEM license, in perpetuity. [Note: Kronos claims the exec updates confirm this.  Until I have, I will continue to support my initial argument.]

I'll say it again, these prejudices have got to end.

[ShadesOfGrey]

@mips

so what?... microsoft a gigantic real company... their not in the same boat 'AT ALL" as A1/OS4...

You've actually just made a valid argument for the ROM dongle...  AI/Hyperion/Eyetech are not in the same league as Microsoft.  AI/Hyperion/Eyetech (and even Gensi, since MorphOS is pretty much just A/Box) are in a re-emerging market (well that's what I'm hoping) while Microsoft are in an established market.  Hence their strategies will be different.

AI/Hyperion/Eyetech are trying to throttle the AOS market.  Why? Because they couldn't possibly support (and I don't just mean tesh support) the explosive growth so many here seem to desire.  Have AI/Hyperion/Eyetech precluded explosive growth?  I don't think so.  They've just built in a pressure release valve for the AOS market with the ROM dongle.

Until MorphOS for the Teron and (yet unreleased) Barbie, I think it's safe to say Genesi is doing the same.  And I sincerely don't blame them!

[ShadesOfGrey]

@ Mips

I dont think hardware companies should have to bend over backward for the privelige of having an OS run on their hardware.... most if not all of these solutions primary OS and intention is not to run AOS/ MOS or any alternative... but to run Linux anyway..

Do we know for a fact that a hardware company has "to bend over backward"?  So far, only Eyetech have negotiated one.  All other parties (Apple, Genesi, Barbie, and the SBC or 'brick' PPC manufacturers)  have chosen not to even investigate the terms of the license.  So how can we know that obtaining a license is so difficult.

[ShadesOfGrey]

samface wrote:

2. The Barbie? I'm sorry but that Linux dude is the kind of guy that expects others to create software specificly for his hardware on their own initiative. That's not how it works. If he gets a userbase for his hardware then maybe, but that on the other hand requires software for it. What has Hyperion to gain from making support for his hardware with basicly a non-existent userbase? Nothing. What does he has to gain from having AmigaOS4 support? I'd say a whole lot. Wake up and smell the coffee...

Uh, I think you misunderstand the purpose of the Barbie board...  Man I wish it had a different name...  I keep seeing a silly plastic mannequin every time I write "Barbie".  Anyway, the Barbie is targeted at a market willing to bring a software platform to just about any hardware platform...  That software platform is Linux.  All he has to do is put it out there...  He could even sell it as kit with the disclaimer like, "This is a hobbyist machine.  Hardware support will be limited to certain physical defects in the Barbie.  Any and all other hardware issues must be addressed by the second or third party hardware manufacturer.  This includes the BIOS, North & South bridge chips, and integrated audio, video, and network solutions.  This disclaimer is subject to change at any time without notice."  I'm not saying this will happen.  In fact I'm pretty sure it wouldn't.  But it is possible.

The point is, the Barvie is targeted firmly at the Linux world...  It still doesn't mean we would never see AOS4 officially on the Barbie.  It just means a hardware vendor, as opposed to the Barbie manufacturer, would have to negotiate a license.

[ShadesOfGrey]

Kronos wrote:
@DaveP

What are you on ?

Yes any Pegasos will ship with MorphOS, just like any Mac
ships with MacOS and every A1 is gonna ship with OS4.

But thats NOT the point of the petition, it is about OS4 being
sold without the HW, to use it on a Pegasos or Mac.

And remember it was Hyperion who talked about running OS4 on Macs
and Pegasos before April. BPlan haven't changed their stance a bit:

If they want to sell their SW for our HW, than they are free to do
it, but we won't give them any special treatment.

Both A1 and Pegasos are NOT closed, it is the OSes that are, and
Genesi atleast haven't ruled out selling MorphOS shrink-wrapped for
A1 or Mac.

What a minute...  Genesi has not made clear their licensing terms.  We do not know if Genesi will require you to purchase a Pegasos in order to obtain MorphOS.  We do not know if MorphOS will ever be released as a retail product.

As to whether or not Hyperion said AOS4 has run on a Mac or Pegasos; has no bearing on whether it will be made commercially available of either platform.  It's a possibility, not a certainty.

I can't say whether Dave_P is lying when he says that Genesi told him they would not allow MorphOS to be unbundle or not.  But then again, I haven't seen Genesi sell MorphOS on anything other than the Pegasos.  So, I can only assume that Genesi are backing the same strategy as AI/Hyperion/Eyetech.

BTW, AFAIK, AI/Hyperion haven't ruled out the Pegasos or Mac (alothough Apple may have something to say about this) or any other PPC solution either.  But they have made it clear licensing will be required.

[ShadesOfGrey]

Kronos wrote:
@DaveP

What are you on ?

Yes any Pegasos will ship with MorphOS, just like any Mac
ships with MacOS and every A1 is gonna ship with OS4.

But thats NOT the point of the petition, it is about OS4 being
sold without the HW, to use it on a Pegasos or Mac.

And remember it was Hyperion who talked about running OS4 on Macs
and Pegasos before April. BPlan haven't changed their stance a bit:

If they want to sell their SW for our HW, than they are free to do
it, but we won't give them any special treatment.

Both A1 and Pegasos are NOT closed, it is the OSes that are, and
Genesi atleast haven't ruled out selling MorphOS shrink-wrapped for
A1 or Mac.

What a minute...  Genesi has not made clear their licensing terms.  We do not know if Genesi will require you to purchase a Pegasos in order to obtain MorphOS.  We do not know if MorphOS will ever be released as a retail product.

As to whether or not Hyperion said AOS4 has run on a Mac or Pegasos; has no bearing on whether it will be made commercially available of either platform.  It's a possibility, not a certainty.

I can't say whether Dave_P is lying when he says that Genesi told him they would not allow MorphOS to be unbundle or not.  But then again, I haven't seen Genesi sell MorphOS on anything other than the Pegasos.  So, I can only assume that Genesi are backing the same strategy as AI/Hyperion/Eyetech.

BTW, AFAIK, AI/Hyperion haven't ruled out the Pegasos or Mac (alothough Apple may have something to say about this) or any other PPC solution either.  But they have made it clear licensing will be required.