Is emulation based x86 machines in Amiga cases really a no no? or......

[TheDaddy]

Same can be said for PPC mobo in a Amiga Case.

Wrong!

[TheDaddy]

My Amiga case with a PPC board is NOT false advertising.
It's an Amiga in an Amiga case (what makes an Amiga case is highly debatable anyway) running a real, proper Amiga Operating system.
Not some wannabe Linux based OS.
A LADA with a BMW body is still a LADA.

[TheDaddy]

I also have a PPC board in my Amiga... But that is an Amiga... What we are talking about here are new machines, is there any difference between a x86 based motherboard and a PPC one in an "Amiga" case?

I meant a PPC board as a SAM PPC based board.
My A1200 BlizzardPPC was still an Amiga even when I took it out of its case and put it in a tower and it was running OS3.9.

My SAMs are Amigas even if they are in a generic £30 mini-itx case.

A PPC based MAC would still be an Amiga when running an Amiga OS although the tight connections to Apple would make this slightly more difficult to acknwoledge but still...

My SAM runs OS4 not Linux, not Windows nor OSX. You can run Linux on a SAM but at this point I wouldn't call it an Amiga.

So to answer the question...yes there is a difference. The difference is based on the OS you run. If the PPC motherboard is running YDL in an Amiga replica case then it is not an Amiga in my opinion. If the x86 in an Amiga replica case is running an Amiga Operating System then it is.

You can start going deeply into what makes and what doesn't make an Amiga but it would all be based on conjecture. What makes an Amiga OS more Amiga than another one? I have used and still use all the AmigaOS spin offs and out of all of them OS4 feels AmigaOS.

As it stands my above description fits my belief.

@Daedalus

I agree with you. I am running OS4 and, to me, it feels the natural and spiritual successor of AmigaOS. When I sold my A1200 BPPC 060 60MHz and PPC 266MHz with all the bits and bobs, Mediator, Voodoo 5, Soundblaster and OS3.9 and started using OS4 on my SAM it felt as I never left. I am not sure if it's clear. It doesn't feel alien. It's just faster than my A1200. Even the crashes feel original!
I always thought :"My A1200 has pc stuff in it...Voodoo, PCI, Soundblaster...but it's still my Amiga", the SAM is the same but it feels and it is Amiga to me at least.
I have loads of PCs and one runs Windows and goes straight into WinUAE, you hardly notice Windows is there, but you know it isn't Amiga.

[TheDaddy]

Actually, this is pure semantics, I dont actually care too much, but a sam, etc. isnt any more an Amiga than an x86 machine dedicated to an amiga based os. Yes, the OS it (a sam) runs the official successor, but the hardware itself isnt an Amiga. It's an AmigaOS machine, but not "Amiga" hardware.

All from a perspective of licensing, legality, etc. Like I said, I really dont care too much, Im more of a mind that its the mindset and what a person does with thier machine that dictates if a person is an amiga user.

So what you are saying is that a SAM with OS4 is more Amiga than an x86 machine running something else?

Define Amiga hardware please and don't give me "custom chips" and all that.

[TheDaddy]

Why would that be true? Neither are Amigas.
Sorry, 'custom chips' and Amiga go hand in hand. Amiga hardware: OCS/ECS/AGA+680x0. Basically the hardware from back in the day: A500/A600/A1000/A1200/A2000/A3000/A4000 (and some I  missed) are Amigas.

Not in my view. A SAM with OS4 is an Amiga.
Not necessarily, a lot of computers have custom chipsets but they are not called Amigas.
And it's not 1985 anymore.

[TheDaddy]

My last sentence kinda covers it I thought (ie., from a stance of legality, license, etc.) , but basically what Im saying is a Sam is Amiga OS4 hardware, but not an Amiga. It's all semantics though as I said, I really couldnt care less.
Just the other side of the coin from the often heard, "its not amiga if its not the official continuiation of the sources" arguement. If it works one way (software), then it works the other too (hardware).

It runs OS4 then it's an Amiga, sorry it doesn't matter how you paint it.
And you seem to care enough though...

[TheDaddy]

Fixed it for you.

Really? Fixed it for you? Na, na na na na!

Grow up spammy!

My SAM with OS4 is MORE Amiga than any of your master's crap!

There fixed it for you.

[TheDaddy]

@Thoram

>>I find that quite insulting to what Amiga really is

Sorry about that but there is concrete evidence about my statement

>>And it's not 1985 anymore. Indeed!

Exactly, so people can't carry on saying custom chips, custom chips with OS3.1

>>So, a SAM emulator running on a peecee will magically transform that peecee into an Amiga?

No if you read my posts carefully I haven't said that, read all my posts.

[TheDaddy]

@Amiga_Nut

>>No, it's an OS4 compatible, OS4 being some software some Germans THINK is what is Amiga and need UAE to run Rocket Ranger.

OS4 feels AmigaOS, has the code in it. OS4, for me, is more Amiga than AROS, MOS or WinUAE. Coupled with a suitable PPC board makes it an Amiga (to me). And just before you start, I have got AROS, MOS and WinUAE.
So based on the fact that I have OS4 and I use all the others I CAN come to an empirical conclusion.

>>How the fek is that Amiga? I can run classic software Amithlon on X86 hardware just as fast as on MOS or OS4 so that's full of fail.

You really need to read my posts better. We are not discussing IF we can run classic software as fast or faster. This is not the point.

>>If all you want is an OS4 computer cool, me I want either an Amiga or something that doesn't cost £1200+ for the "pleasure" of running what Hyperion wants me to think is Amiga

You are free to do so

>>edit: I did NOT see the post above before writing my comment. What is plainly clear is had Amithlon been developed further we would have no need for the OS4 MOS pretenders

It's still an emu isn't it?

>>Amiga has a Paula chip and loads Cinemaware floppy disk originals with realtime access FACT. Anything else is emulation sorry if that offends people.

But it's an Amiga from 1985. That is an Amiga as much as a SAM with OS4. It came first. Nobody wrote it in stone that an Amiga has to have a custom chipset or load "floppies" to be an Amiga. My Minimig is an Amiga. It loads games from a SD Card and it's faster, way faster than my A500.

[TheDaddy]

@fishy_fiz

>>No, if it runs OS4 then it runs OS4, still not technically an Amiga.

How is that? Technically define Amiga.
So a motherboard with PPC (which the real Amiga had by the way) running AmigaOS is not an Amiga? Really?

>>My Amithlon box runs AmigaOS, is that an Amiga? (and no its not entirely emulation, only the 68k side)

To me it isn't. If you read my posts I have got them all and it doesn't feel Amiga as much as OS4. It's a personal thing.

There haven't been "official" Amigas since Commodore died. But you are discussing my impression and experience and I am saying that based on my experience of all the AmigaOS/hardware spin offs OS4 feels like home.

>>Hyperion dont own the Amiga brand, nor do Acube or A-EON, ergo cant produce Amigas.

True. But they make the closest thing to an Amiga (whatever that may be), my point of view.

>>As much as it pains me to say it only A.Inc (perhaps now C-USA, depending on what happened there) can produce computers that are Amigas. Will I buy them, or even support them? Absolutely not, but that changes nothing.

And this is where I believe you are wrong because from what you say whoever has the name can make the REAL stuff? This is absolute nonsense. So I set up a company that makes the "real" Amigas, let's say a perfect reproduction in hardware of an A1200 but more modern, a Natami for example. But because it's called a Natami it's not an Amiga because Amiga Inc. or CUSA haven't put the name on? Ridiculous.

>>As I said before, if people want to play the "it's official 'cos its the legal successor using the original sources" game then its nothing but hypocricy to try to claim a Sam is an Amiga. Cant have it both ways. It's a vehicle for OS4, nothing more regardless of how you try to paint it.

You need to define real Amiga. Otherwise your point is moot.

[TheDaddy]

That would be the Amiga 1000 (or just "Amiga" as the first were called), the A500 was a cost reduced version by commodore.
 

 
It wouldn't matter. Whatever commodore designed for AGA would have become an AGA Amiga. AAA was also an Amiga, albeit unfinished.
 
The Amiga Technlogies machines were also Amiga's, they were basically the same as the commodore machines.
 
There are no Amiga's produced since then.
 
You can't make an Amiga, in the same way you can't make a Ford Fusion.

What's a Ford Fusion?

[TheDaddy]

@Thoram

>>What I mean is that I don't see why people have to keep assigning the name Amiga to >>machines which are not Amigas.

Exactly, it's all down to personal experience and after testing a few "Amigas" I personally think that OS4+SAM (X1000 which I haven't tested yet) is the Amiga for me more than any other combinations and as much as Amiga as, dare I say, an A500!


>>My Minimig is an Amiga.
>>No, it's an FPGA computer.

Again you fall in the trap of considering Amigas just the Commodore machines. From my perspective and point of view it's an Amiga. It even has a 68000 cpu!


>>Of course it's not. Just like a Draco isn't an Amiga, but a 680x0 AmigaOs platform. You >>can ask yourself, if you run a 680x0 MacOS on the Amiga, will your Amiga become a Mac?

It depends how you run it. Natively, emulated?

>>Amiga is defined by the hardware, and not the OS. If I run some sort of 680x0 Amiga port of a linux, then the machine is still an Amiga. In fact, it doesn't matter what a computer runs at all, it's still the same hardware.

And who decides that? That is nonsense. So the only machines that can be called an Amiga are the Commodore machines?
So when I speak to someone I have to say "I have a dedicated PPC motherboard configured to run AmigaOS4 which is the natural and spiritual successor of the operating system present on the machines once produced by the now defunct Commodore"? I just say I have a new generation Amiga, because that is what it is.

[TheDaddy]

Happy Christmas everyone!