Mediator + BVision configuration problems

[Boot_WB]

Having some issues here:  I am not changing any hardware, just different software configurations:

With standard P96 Mediator software setup everything (PPC, mediator) works fine.  
With just the BPPC/Bvision cybergraphics setup everything (PPC, bvision) works fine.

When I try to use the mediator AND the Bvision all hell breaks loose.  Sometimes the PCI cards are not recognised at all.  Sometimes Poseidon crashes when spider is installed - or sees the board but does not recognise anything attached to it - or jsut doesn't see the board.  Calling PSDstackloader in user-startup generally (but not always) causes the system to hang on bootup.

Yes, I'm aware the Voodoo memory is required for Busmaster devices to function correctly in the mediator.  Doesn't mean you have to be using Picasso96 though, does it?

I had some issues changing from P96 to CGX when I first installed the Bvision, so have done a fresh install.  
I copied the MUI folder directly from my old installation, so the problem is not one of missing MUI custom classes.

I have: Mediator PCI 1200: Ensoniq 5880 sound card, Voodoo3, RTL8139 fast ethernet, Spider 2 USB     In that order form the top slot.  Using Blizzard PPC 060@66/603e@210 with 256mb and BVision (8mb)

I have tried with envarc:powerpc/gfxaddr set to $e0000000 (bvision) and $2000000 (voodoo) - no change, not really surprised by that.

The Bvision works fine, and has an extra heatsink & fan on the permedia chip, as well as a heatsink on the other logic chip.  The PPC has a fine heatsink & fan on the 060, and an extra heatsink & fan attached to the Phase 5 one, as well as the original fan.  Some fancy soldering hooks it all together with additional power supplied driectly to both the fans, and +5 and earth of the edge connector pins supplies extra juice to the board itself.

So cooling and power aren't a problem here, and I've narrowed it down to a software problem.

Anyone using the combination of BVision & Mediator, still using the voodoo for the busmaster memory buffer?

I'd appreciate knowing your env variables and library versions.

[Boot_WB]

@Piru

I am not trying to use CGX and P96 at the same time, I'm not that brave!
I just got hold of a Bvision recently and have been trying it out, I'd like to be able to use the mediator whilst I'm using the Bvision is all.  

@Nickman

You want to use the BVision as gfx output and use the voodoo3 card in the mediator just as a DMA memory card ?  Why ??

Because I have a bvision, and I want to use it.  Because pulling my Power tower out to chage the monitor cable over is a pain in the ar5e, and is crumpling the edge of the rug, and because my switchbox is only two way, and I want ot use it for switching between my PC and Amiga.
Never had one before, want to try it out.
Also, the Elbox marketing claim:

The idea of connecting a PCI/AGP busboard directly to Blizzard PPC cards gives worse performance than MEDIATOR because:.......Connection of a busboard to the connector used for inserting a BVision card renders further use of the BVision impossible.

led me to believe that using the bvision was possible with the mediator.  I suppose it is if you're willing to not use any busmastering devices.
On a side note, in the same article:

Technical specification of this product has been announced in such a way that Amiga users would have to misread it.

Amazingly, they are talking about Eyetech, not themselves :lol: :lol:

And i think the mediator uses the P96 voodoo driver to get DMA going. So in other words you have to have P96 running to be able to use the mediator with a Spider USB/100mbit NIC and so on.

That is interesting, and would explain a lot if it is the case.  Where did you hear about this?

@CLS2086
Exactly what I have ended up doing, pain in the ar5e swapping the monitor cables around though.

@DJBase
Thanks!  I'll give it a try - do you know whether it is a patch to allow:
1  Bvision to operate under P96 (somehow)
2  CGX and P96 together
or
3  Mediator to do busmastering correctly under CGX ??

@Kas1e
Thankyou, I'm doing the same thing at the moment (using two partitions and selecting which takes priority at bootup).


Thanks for the advice, I'd like to get it working, and hopefully this thread will help anyone else who tries similar shenanigans.  :crazy:

[Boot_WB]

@Kas1e

Afaik you can run non-busmaster devices (10mpbs ethernet etc) without the voodoo card in the mediator at all.  

@DJbase

The BVPPCfix patch appears to disable the Bvision card on bootup - presumably by removing the resident cgx libraries and bvision driver from ROM.  It also appears to prevent them loading from the hard drive when the bvision driver is initialised during startup-sequence.

Presumably this was some way of allowing use of P96 without removing the bvision completely??  Not sure..  Don't have any problems in that regard anyway so far.
Unfortunately this doesn't help with the configuration.

On a brighter note, just done an XP reinstall on my laptop, and finally got DMA transfers on my hard drive for the first time :-D - had been limited to PIO modes before this.  Seems a happier system all round, too.

[Boot_WB]

Well, unless the pci.library initializes the card to activate memory, you will need Picasso96 to load the driver first before using any "DMA" PCI card. Normally, when the graphics card is disabled, the memory is not being refreshed and will lose its content immediately.

Hmmm... thanks - that puts a different slant on things.  I thought initially that the pci.library would do just that.  Didn't realise the card would need to called by the driver for the mediator to use its memory area.

I wonder, is there a way to start the picasso96 system to activate the driver, then flush all the picasso libaries from memory before activating the cyergraphics system?
I'm talking out of my hat here, but could that be enough to initialise the voodoo card.

Is there a way to flush individual libraries from memory?

[Boot_WB]

@DJBase

Do you know what the BVPPCfix does?  It seems to do more than just temporarily patch the resident libraries, because after removing it I can no longer boot into my cybergraphics partition.

Sigh - at least I backed the partition up this time whilst it was still working, albeit a while back...

[Boot_WB]

Well, I'm really confused now.

The installations in both partitions are screwed.  Kept getting ramlib failure on bootup in the end.
I've tried reinstalling, but on a fresh installation my bvision display is all blacked out (I can see borders, but no cursor, text, graphics).
I think the bvppc patch changes something in either cgx, the permedia driver or the bvision monitor settings.  I don't know.  Either way it sacaded onto the new emergency disk I created and from there to the fresh OS3.9 installation.

OS3.0 works fine, the installation of OS3.9 goes fine.  

Am trying a fresh install from scratch, but without using any previous monitor drivers, etc.

@Kas1e - I'll give that a try :-)  Thanks

At the moment I'll settle for a working installation with ANY graphics driver.  Have installed 3.9 many times before and never had this trouble... :-(

Just done a fresh installation with no graphics driver and no cd drivers copied during installation.

Ramlib failure    :madashell:
What the phuckibnhfdshfjkshfkjdhkas
gkj;hklgfjalk!!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

I'm going to try installing idefix on 3.0, THEN installing 3.9 from an installation which can't possible be affected by all of this.  This is driving me nuts.  More so...

[Boot_WB]

doctorq wrote:
Sounds more to me like the 680#0 libraries are either corrupted or out of date.

Latest flashrom update compatible with BVision installed.  Not 0x0 libraries.  Even reflashed to be sure.

As for installing a BVision, don't use the installer on the CyberGraphX v4 CD, but unpack the latest update, unarc it, and use the installer in this one. Get an update from this page for instance.

This is the one I'm using (or trying to).

Kas1e wrote:
  ramlib failure can be in fact of :

1. bad envs for WarpOS
2. bad hardware contact (too much time was for me somethink like it)

I'd not even got around to installing warpOS yet, this was just a fresh OS3.9 install.

I've already cleaned the edge-connector contacts with a pencil eraser today, as I've suffered this problem before.
I would think it might be my 4-way adapter, but I haven't touched it at all.

At the moment I'm just trying to install OS 3.9 again.  Once I've done that, and backed up the installation (to a CD) I'll maybe think about cgx/p96 partitions.

Reminds me of when I first got OS3.9, all this malarky.  What a farce.

Thanks for your advice folks.

If I was paid minimum wage for the work I do on my Amiga I'd be pretty rich.  

[Boot_WB]

@All

I've FINALLY found the problem (I think), after a cascade of failures, initally started during this thread - which has probably cost me around 100 hours (and around £30) work to find the root of.

Started with the problems described above.

For a while the Amiga would crash during bootup when trying to install IDEfix.

Most times most of the PCI cards would not be recognised, although strangely the Voodoo card always was recognised.
This was the biggast clue, as I'd had this symptom before when I had a loose Earth wire in one of my Molex connectors.

Very rarely I'd get a red screen on boot, sometimes no boot at all.

I replaced EVERYTHING piece by piece:

Tried a new 4-way adapter, and just a 44-40pin adapter.
Tried a different Mediator.
Replaced the IDE and floppy cables
Removed the Tower LED connector form the motherboard.
Tried removing each PCI card in turn
Bought a new 550W ATX PSU
Tried a different keyboard adapter
Installed onto a new Hard drive.
Tried removing the floppy drive (haven't got a spare one of those  :-P )
Tried a different accelerator (Apollo 1240)
Different RAM
Different motherboard (Rev 1b)

Occasionally after removing something, or changing something the problems would all disappear - I'd think I'd solved it only for the problems to reappear next time I rebooted.

Having reinstalled several times I was certain this was not a software issue, but the only thing left which was in the original configuration is the physical mass of the Power Tower.

Although not visible, it seems that the tower was bowing the motherboard ever so slightly.  Although it looks fine, I've tried bending the interior plate of the tower slightly inwards, and at the moment (touches wood) all the problems have disappeared.

Just thought I'd post this lengthy description in case someone else has similar, seemingly random, sporadic, untraceable issues.

It's working again  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)

[Boot_WB]

Hi, the majority of the Bvision is not under the mediator so you can still attach a haetsink and/or fan with no obstruction.  The hole in the bvision is large enough that you can still access the floppy power and led headers through it with the mediator pass-through connector in place.

I added a small rubber stopper onto one of the chips of the motherboard to support the bvision, thus preventing it from touching the motherboard - though this is probably not necessary if your BPPC is supported properly.

There is (further back in this thread) a utility called BVPPCfix which, like the BPPCfix utility, removes resident libraries on startup - in this case deactivating the BVision.  This could be useful if you have a dual-boot setup where 1 partition is for BVision, and 1 is for Mediator.  iirc there are some problems reported (although I can't remember noticing any difference) of the bvision/mediator combination slowing down performance when both PPC and Mediator are in use.  

Mechanically, there were no problems.  Performance wise I'm sure it works, i just had other problems which all came to light.  I've not yet gotten around to reassembling everything.

Regards



Rich