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Author Topic: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500  (Read 39251 times)

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Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #14 from previous page: April 02, 2015, 07:32:42 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;787259
How do you know? Do think that products are developed by a couple of engineers sitting in the corner, "hey, this looks cool?". Even if it would, back then you could sell a home computer by good hardware. This does not work this time. Times changed, the platform is much smaller.    How do you know? And how come you know "what is better"? I am not so sure about this...    So why exactly do we need new instructions then if there is no demand for new software? Exactly... The problem at this point is not "we are missing instructions in the core".  

Hardly ever. You probably have never worked in a company?

Actually yes, that's exactly how the first Apple computers were developed.  There was no team of developers and engineers doing any requirements analyses.  Same goes for the Amiga.  And yes, I've worked for several major companies as well as the government so I'm quite familiar with conducting requirements analyses.  Requirements analyses are great for government contracts and the bidding process...horrible for private enterprise and hobbies.  And Gunnar isn't developing a product for the masses.  Those days are long gone. He's developing a hobby board for Amiga hobbyists.  You seem to live in a delusional world where you think there's still an Amiga mass market or one that can be resurrected.

And I can ask you the same question!  How do you know what's best for us or for this project?  You keep whining about the instruction set.  If you don't like the new instructions, stick to the old ones or better yet, just stay away from this project completely and stop confirming your disdain for Gunnar and his work.

I'd much prefer a computer, car, motorcycle, etc.....be developed by engineers who say, wow, this looks cool, let's add this to our project than ANY product developed by bureaucrats who let their designs be driven by a requirements analysis.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 07:43:08 PM by ferrellsl »
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2015, 07:35:31 PM »
Quote from: kolla;787260
If someone could provide information about the time frame, I may very well do that. However, it seems like the developer boards are already have FPGAs too limited to hold the just now recently decides minimum requirements, so I don't know if it is worth it, looks like waiting for the next batch is better option for me. Currently I'm not home anyways, and wont be for another 5 months.


There are two links in the very first post of this thread that explain how to obtain a board for testing.  One board is for the A600.  The other is for an A500/1000/2000.  But yes, you are correct.  The dev/test boards have a smaller FPGA than the consumer boards that will follow, so it may be better to wait.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 07:39:45 PM by ferrellsl »
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2015, 07:49:19 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;787263
@ferellsl

so you want to scare one of the main contributors like thor away from the project? are you going to take his place and develop support libraries? and if not, why dont you just hold your mouth or go using os4 or something like that, instead of alienating people here?

Huh?  Not sure what you're referring to here.  I don't own or even use OS4,  nor have I ever had an exchange with Thor nor discussed anything about developing the support libraries that I'm aware of.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 07:51:24 PM by ferrellsl »
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2015, 08:23:53 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;787272
your own words above. not speaking about matt, who anyway helped a lot with a number of amiga projects, but telling one of the few apollo team software contributors, like thor, because he has some valid concerns, he should stay away from the project is everything but constructive.


I still have no idea what you're referring too.  I haven't told THOR to stay away.  Never mentioned him.  I told Matt and THOMAS to stay away if they didn't like this project.  It's Gunnar's project and he obviously is getting along quite well in spite of Matt's and Thomas' criticisms.  If they don't like the direction that Gunnar is taking his project, they should take it up with Gunnar in offline mode rather than making a spectacle of themselves here.  And there are other people who can develop libraries for Gunnar's project, as well as complete alternatives to Gunnar's project such as the Minimig, Chameleon, Mist and Replay boards. No one is forcing anyone to like or adopt or develop for Gunnar's project.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 08:29:53 PM by ferrellsl »
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2015, 08:58:54 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;787281
thor and thomas richter are one and the same person. clear now?



Wow, so I'm supposed to magically know that?  I really don't care if I scare Thomas or Thor or whatever he calls himself, away from this project.  With help like his, Gunnar and his project don't need any enemies!  Thomas/Thor has been the most vocal detractor of this project via this thread.  Scaring him away might be doing everyone a favor!
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2015, 10:43:50 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;787287
you could inform yourself to whom are you talking to and adjust your tone. and now good luck to continue to do your best to drive people who put work on this project apart.

So I'm just supposed to magically make the connection that two different names on two different forums are the same person?  That's as ridiculous as  demanding MacOS compatibility or the outright rejection of Gunnar's project because of new CPU instructions.

If people working on Gunnar's project are so unprofessional as to quit like cry-babies because of MY posts, then Gunnar and the rest of us really are better off without them!

Even Gunnar finds Thor/Thomas' comments and logic puzzling....not to mention that he's making an open spectacle of himself because of his resistance to additional CPU instructions.  This situation is no different than using AltiVec extensions on a PPC CPU.  If you don't want to use AltiVec, then don't use it.  Same goes for SSE instructions on Intel/AMD.  But I don't know of ANY programmers who set out to cripple their code.......
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 10:54:44 PM by ferrellsl »
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2015, 07:09:31 AM »
Quote from: kolla;787304
Have you printed out his avatar photo and framed it above your bed already? :)


No, but I have yours mounted on my dart board and it's full of holes already.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2015, 02:15:37 AM »
Quote from: Kremlar;787501
One of the biggest driving factors of FPGA hardware will be replacing aging Amiga systems.  Accelerators are nice but won't help fix failing Amigas due to leaking batteries, failing capacitors, careless users, etc...

How popular would WinUAE be if it didn't handle old misbehaving software so well?

Why is WHDLoad so popular?

A standalone FPGA solution should have excellent compatibility options (even different cores would be OK), or it's popularity will be limited.


Some enterprising soul could always port UAE over to Apollo/Vampire accelerated systems for those temperamental hardware banging games.  Wouldn't that be ironic?  Running an emulator for 68K classic Amigas on accelerated classic Amigas!  Sort of like DosBox on PCs.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2015, 10:57:03 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;787569
You quite plainly did, or did you think that buying a 68000 and placing it next to a A4000 would magically empower it with the ability to run unmodified 68000 code?

 The only other option I can come up with is that you're just randomly saying crazy things hoping to "win" an argument, but I hope that is not the case.
 


I think you're trying too hard not to, but I'll play along.

If you have an fpga in your a4000 then it could easily have a 68000 core loaded into it that would run at 7mhz, it would be useful because of what you said. "The A4000 is by that definition not compatible in first place because it does not have an 68K in it. ", what I'm suggesting would make it more compatible for booting old disks than soft kicking and disabling caches.

You're just trying to be argumentative as usual.  If you want absolute and complete 100% compatibility then stick to using a classic Amiga and stop with all these ridiculous demands.  If you don't like the Apollo/Phoenix, then don't use it!  Or use it in your classic Amiga and remove it when you feel the need.  The Apollo/Phoenix project will probably run 98% of the Amiga software out there without any problem.  The other 2% will in most cases be demos or games that most people won't care about.  Same story happened 25 years ago with the 68030 accelerators that I used to upgrade my classics.  The software that had issues wasn't critical to my operations and I could always disable the accelerator....or use WHDLoad.  It simply isn't reasonable or practical to expect hobbyist developers like Gunnar and Thomas nor professionals to spend 99% of their time shooting for 100% compatibility.  Be happy that there's any new development period.

And there was never such a thing as 100% compatibility in the first place.  I bought my first Amiga 2000 in an Army PX in Germany.  It was an NTSC model and several PAL software packages and games simply wouldn't run on it even if I held down both mouse buttons and selected a PAL boot-up.  I actually ended up buying a PAL Fat Agnus for it when I absolutely had to run those cranky bits of software.  So you're asking for the ridiculous.  Even the PC emulation software released by Commodore had problems across the same A500 lines.  It ran fine on my system, but wouldn't recognize the keyboards on my boss' A500 due to Commodore using a slightly different keyboard controller in those units.

Or like I and a few others have suggested, use WHDLoad with the Apollo/Phoenix.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 11:03:08 PM by ferrellsl »
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2015, 11:14:32 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;787572
He is saying that we want 1 Amiga that "does everything".

It could load a 68000 core to be a 68000.
It could load a 68EC070 core to be a 68EC070.
It could load a 68070+MMU core to be a 68070+MMU.
etc. etc.

Apparently there is also a Mac-Compatible core and a Not Mac-Compatible core. Which seems like a reasonable compromise.


When is the last time in your memory that you had one device that "did everything"?  Let me help you answer that......NEVER.  I wish you guys would stop trying to impose unreasonable demands on a hobby such as Apollo/Phoenix.

As for your scenarios above, the FPGAs can do such things if someone develops the cores you're looking for.  Get it thru your heads that Mac compatibility, MMUs, and 100% absolute compatibility are not the goals of this project and move on.  Or better yet, learn to develop a core that YOU'RE happy with and stop whining.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: in case you are interested to test new fpga accelerators for a600/a500
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2015, 02:50:43 AM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;787576
Chill out.  I am not demanding anything.  I was just explaining to Thor, the concept that psxphil was explaining, using different words.



/me casts RetaliatoryStrike +20 vs.  Misdirected Rants

Gunnar already said there would be a Mac-Compatible version of the core.
Gunnar has also said, 512 bazillion times that 68070/Apollo would be 100% compatible.
If you don't like the way Gunnar is doing things then learn to develop a core that YOU'RE happy with and stop whining.

Yeah, I know.  Sorry if my comments seemed directed at you.  They were directed at psxphill and my lack of attention to detail put you in the cross-hairs by mistake!  LOL!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 03:25:30 AM by ferrellsl »