Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?  (Read 17396 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ad-rs1600i

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 37
    • Show all replies
Re: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?
« on: October 26, 2010, 07:27:55 PM »
I think it would be a shame if the Amiga moved over to X86, because like others have said Amiga would be just another OS rather than a unique h/w & s/w platform in its own right. I also like, and feel the need for a strong connection with the original Amiga kit from the 80/90s

PPc likely has enough legs to do most of what is required in the modern world - especially optimised for one platform. I wonder if there is any way of making the price more competitive? I guess it all depends on how you view Amiga computing in the modern world, e.g. hobby computing or a standard desktop work horse. As a work horse compared with the faceless stuff down PC World it is horrendously expensive, but as a unique, vibrant and interesting hobby it is excellent value for money with a great community behind it. I would say stop trying to compete with the mainstream and accept and enjoy 'Amiga' for its vibrancy, and uniqueness :)

I think a modern PPc card for the classic Amiga's would go along way towards getting more people involved and interested in OS4 - the market for classic Amiga seems very vibrant and well backed reviewing the price of second hand PPc cards etc. Also there are lots of 30+ year old kids(!) like me who are now in a position to buy that go faster turbo card we could never afford back in the day! But the connection -for me at least - would have to be there with the classic machines.

Amiga will win through as a unique interesting product steeped in History - as a standalone OS on X86 it will struggle because it would have little genuine connection with the past and only a very small developer base compared with Linux and Windows, in my humble opinion.

Stay original and niche!! :)
 

Offline ad-rs1600i

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 37
    • Show all replies
Re: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 08:23:38 PM »
@ persia

I am a bit of a old romantic so anything I say will certainly be from that vain I suppose! :) To my mind there was an argument for PowerPC as the logical successor to 64k as the Mac had very similar lineage to the Amiga and went that way - I always looked at the Mac as  what might have happened next with the Amiga without Commodore's demise :)

I guess my viewpoint is also definitely in the retro camp - I would love to see a new Amiga game running on a modern PPc board even if it wasn't anywhere near as good as something on a modern PC. Incidentally for games I don't even use a PC anymore, I have my PS3 which I also love and appreciate more than any PC I have ever owned because like the Amiga, you always feel the developers are pushing every last crumb of performance out of the hardware. In the PC world, if you cannot run the game/app it generally a 'tough luck mate, upgrade your hardware' type scenario.


Adrian

PS - I really loved reading this post with all the serious techy/developer dialog - I thought I was technical but no where near to the level of you guys!! :) It is also really great to see everyone so passionate about their various points of argument either which way - it shows 'Amiga' as an entity has a future no matter what happens to my mind :)
 

Offline ad-rs1600i

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 37
    • Show all replies
Re: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 05:51:53 PM »
Quote from: kolla;587294
You can pretty much thank Apple for the death of PowerPC desktop machine, and it has nothing to do with Apple switching to Intel CPUs a few years ago, but everything to do with Apple killing off the CHRP in the mid-late '90ies when they refused to license MacOS to "clones", before any other desktop OS had managed to establish themselves on the PowerPC. And you can ask IBM and Freescale (Motorola back then) what they thought of it at the time.

Oh, and it's 68k, not 64k :)


64k lol - can you tell i've been messing around with computers for too long?! 64k probably relates to my first computer a Amstrad CPC 464 with 64k of RAM I think from memory..
 

Offline ad-rs1600i

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 37
    • Show all replies
Re: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 05:58:09 PM »
Quote from: desantii;587391
To me moving to x86 would loose the Amiga charm as well, only thing X86 related that I like is UAE.

Now that I am getting my "classics" more and more updated, I ma enjoying them very much.

I think a move to x86 would alienate a lot of people, that really like the classics (Ito me PPC as far as classic will go)



I agree, and if someone produced a modern PPC card today for the classic machines, I would be really interested and so would many other people I feel dabbling with classic Amiga, to the point whereby you might get renewed interesting in OS4 with the associated renewed development projects :)
 

Offline ad-rs1600i

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 37
    • Show all replies
Re: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 06:04:55 PM »
Quote from: JJ;587505
Amstrad CPC range, best 8bit ever


I sold mine for a 128k Spectrum... :)
 

Offline ad-rs1600i

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 37
    • Show all replies
Re: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2010, 11:17:49 AM »
Quote from: vidarh;587869
Except it *does* to quite a few Amiga users. Even the PPC is controversial still to some Amiga users.

I use, and have contributed code to, AROS, but I also detest the x86 architecture. I'm pragmatic and x86 hardware because I need a main machine that is fast, and x86_64 is far cleaner, but for hack value the PPC is far more appealing and the M68k even more.

The thing is, AmigaOS4 (or 5 or whatever) on x86 wouldn't interest me much. I have AROS for that need. On PPC it's a different deal, beause of the hack value. I'll pay a premium for that. A big one. From the looks of it, I'm not the only one.

Now, I'm sure there are people who'd buy AmigaOS4 for x86 in a heatbeat, but who can't justify a SAM or X1000, but likewise there will be people for whom AmigaOS4 on x86 would be completely uninteresting, but who'll happily pay for the PPC version even if it is more expensive

Hyperion has to weight the odds of the former group being larger than the second group by a sufficient factor to offset the porting cost, and there really is no good basis for making a judgement about that.

It is naive at best to assume that non-Amiga users would flock to AmigaOS if it was available at current price for x86, for example - it'd be compared to Linux, Windows and OS X, and for users without a strong sentimental bond to the Amiga, it's still lacking too many things to be a serious contender. So the queston is how many Amiga fans are out there without PPC or classic hardware that'd buy OS4 for x86 instead of just using UAE or AROS if they decide to go x86?

They'd make a big investment in porting (new drivers, endianness issues - and in my experience porting Amiga code to AROS, there are likely to be many) while splitting the software market for OS4 in two and risk alienating many of their customers, with little hope of any big payoff from new users.

They're far better off improving their current product for now, and quietly making it more solid and more portable and more up to scratch compared to other OS's, and build up a better set of OS4 software that is more easily ported (discourage ASM), and then *if* they decide to do a switch, do it down the line if they have something that might actually compete with other x86 OS's for non-Amiga users.


I totally agree with this post :) And I also think the guys who are making the PPc stuff are not over pricing it. It boils down to economies of scale - small production runs = high end cost and large production runs = low end cost. I had the same in my model car hobby where a bag of seemingly innocuous screws would cost £8?!?!

You are paying a lot for PPc, but if it is your interest i.e. modern Amiga, then surely it is worth the additional cost to keep something original and unique alive? I would hate Amiga running on X86, it would just be another X86 OS.. Does everyone else not love the originality and uniqueness of the hardware? It always was expensive anyway back in the day, but with a really long life span :)

I am into the classics and will likely buy a A630 board from Individual Computers when it comes out - I bet it will be retailed around £170 - which for a 25mhz board with 32meg of ram in the year 2010, when for £170 I could buy a Netbook probably seems like madness. But to me I would be buying something very special, very unique and would also be ensuring people like Individual Computers would be brave enough to keep producing interesting pieces of hardware for my Amiga classic.

I think for the long term guys who have been buying Amiga throughout and have been into it from the year dot - if this platform is really your bag, which I am sure it is, I would try and support the guys producing modern Amiga stuff before they shut up shop for good. I wouldn't worry about trying to take on Microsoft or Apple - Amiga as a modern commercial brand is all about survival at the moment I believe.. Time to get behind the people who have licenced the Amiga brand, or let it die.... Would I? I am very new back to Amiga as a hobbiest, and for me it is hobby computing - I would seriously consider it if they produced a new PPc trapdoor card :) Just for the shear hell of it! :)

Hope this doesn't offend anyone, only a personal opinion :)
 

Offline ad-rs1600i

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 37
    • Show all replies
Re: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2010, 11:43:52 AM »
Again, without wanting to cause offence because it is a brilliant achievement that OS4 exists with such a strong vibrant community :). If OS4 went X86 and could run on standard hardware PC, isn't there a danger that folk would begin to see some of the more limited areas of OS4, and simply go for the easy option of dual booting something like Linux or Windows. OS4 on X86 might have the opposite effect with the platform decaying and seeing little more development due to the ease of access of alternatives? I am a romantic, but there wouldn't even be the magic with the interesting hardware, as the OS would be sitting on some dull, boring PC hardware - within a dull grey box :(
 

Offline ad-rs1600i

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 37
    • Show all replies
Re: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 02:03:29 PM »
Quote from: warpdesign;588130
Don't you think 95% of the people here *already* own a PC or Mac ?

Being able to run OS4 on this machine would just mean they wouldn't have to spend so many cash to enjoy the very limited OS4 experience. So I would say on the contrary: it would bring more people to try it...

The people that spend xxx$ today to buy a custom slow machine to run OS4 will still spend ~100$ to use the OS on their PC...


I wouldn't sadly :( For me, non custom hardware + x86 OS4 is not an Amiga - personal opinion obviously :) For example, I'm only going to use UAE(?) to move files between my Amiga and PC not for emulation :)

My 10p worth anyway - it will be interesting to see what happens :)
 

Offline ad-rs1600i

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 37
    • Show all replies
Re: OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2010, 02:08:11 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;588142
Why on earth would anyone even want to play a Bluray on an A1200?

Seriously, geeks like you who wet themselves at shiny new toys (As opposed to nerds who actually know what they are talking about and enjoy making stuff do what it wasn't designed to do just because we can) really don't get it at all.

If I wanted to play a Bluray (Which I don't, as I have more creative things to do with my time than waste it watching Zionist propaganda in the form of "entertainment") then I'd buy a Bluray player and a TV.

If I want to make hardware from 20yrs ago do things the engineers never imagined (Which I do, see "creative things" above) then I'll carry do what I'm doing with C64's, Amiga's and other eclectic pieces of hardware that are probably older than you.


That's what I like about classic Amiga - seeing the impossible made possible - and creative ingenuity at its very finest :) Even modern OS4 Amiga in all its various forms - its interesting to me because it is original and not brought down tescos in a brown box for £50 quid like modern machines are.......