Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?  (Read 8436 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« on: October 20, 2011, 08:01:59 AM »
I'll answer in no particular order here  :)

1stly, custom chipset software......

This requires some form of UAE, although with the help of a great little bit of software called EUAL-Load this can be done in a nice simple, "double click icon to run" type way for installed to harddrive software, and a simple def icon definition can deal with launching adfs/etc. This is the one thing that has made me upgrade my amithlon box to the degree I did. 68k uae doesnt use the hosts cpu, so effectively you have an x86 cpu emulating a 68k cpu emulating a full amiga (including cpu). Despite this though it's more than usable on my core2duo@3.86ghz. Performance is akin to my 40mhz '040 for ocs/ecs and maybe 2/3rd of that for AGA software. In short dont expect Winuae type speeds for custom chipset software, but its enough that Im seldom left wanting. The vast majority of software that needs more grunt can be run on RTG anyway, and amithlon absolutely flies in these conditions.
These speeds are based on euae-0.8.29-wip4 as well. Some of the older UAE's are a lot faster (albiet with thier own cons). Im actually trying to get a x86 amithlon native EUAE build working at the moment too, so expect a good 50 or more % additional speed there too.

For sound, amithlon is AHI based (no paula), but you can use Nuldehpah (probably misnamed, cant recall exactly, but it comes with amithlon OS3.9) to reroute what normally would be paula sound through ahi.
Octamed Sound Studio coincidently Ive just been experimenting with on Amithlon and was pleasantly surprised to find it works without issue.

In reagrds to watching DVDs, in theory yes, but there's no software to do the job yet :)
There is a 68k mplayer build, and ffplay, not to mention trusy ol' froggerng and moovid, so watching videos is possible, but DVDs themselves, unfortunately not yet.
Burning discs: Sure, but again youre restricted to what software is available for 68k amigas. Fryingpan, makecd, etc.

For USB, while I dont use it myself (I have no key) poseidon should hopefully do the trick here and cover whatever USB functionality it provides. Without it USB mice and keyboards still work though (or perhaps more accurately "can" work, they do for me, but Ive heard of people that have had problems).

One thing to remember, is that with amithlon youre at the "mercy" of AmigaOS. You can only do what you can do on AmigaOS. There's no host OS supplimenting functionailty that normally you need to get through amiga os (as is the case with winuae). While it can mean it requires a bit more effort, I personally prefer things this way.

As for NICs easy answer: realtek rtl8029 or 8139 (via open pci driver). Long answer, whatevers available through kernel side driver pack, which is quite a few :)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 08:04:36 AM by fishy_fiz »
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2011, 12:52:23 PM »
Ah, I just noticed I didnt answer your question in regards to networking with Amithlon. Once you have your supported nic it's just a matter of setting up a 68k tcp/up stack inside amiga os. Ive always just used Genesis, mostly because it's what comes with OS3.9 (which is part of the amithlon cd).

Everything is done from within AmigaOS with amithlon (apart from initial install of kernel and bootloader).
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 03:38:51 AM »
Nope, Im still using Kernel3.10.
I have used kernel4 before, but I changed motherboards in my amithlon machine a little while ago and set things up from scratch. For no reason in particular I initially set it up using kernel310 and it all behaved perfectly so never bothered changing it.
To be brutally honest kernel3.10 using a p45 based board seems a better experience than kernel4 did with a g31 based board. Both give me a core2duo amithlon machine and kernel4 gave me no particular problems, but it just "feels" a little better and more stable with what Im using now (kernel3.10/p45 chipset mobo).
May well be more hardware related than the kernels themselves, but as they say, "if it aint broke, dont fix it"  :)
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 11:49:47 PM »
Depends on how youre setup. Are you using one or 2 drives. Two drives gives the advantage of being able to dedicated a drive to rdb. One drive means you need to use a bootloader and make an AmithlonVirtualHarddisk device (essentially just a partition).

There's plenty of way to do the above, but personally I just used an AROS nightly disc, live booted, and created the partition with aros hdtoolbox.

Anyway the process goes a little something like this (assuming 1 drive):

Use either FDOS or a Win98 boot disc/cd and create a small fat partition (10 meg should be more than enough, but I used 50). System format that partition (format c:/s). Copy over the isolinux directory to the fat partition.

Boot amithlon cd to minimal Workbench setup. Use hdtoolbox to prepare amithlonvirtualdisk partition how you'd like it.
Install OS3.9 with the os3.9 installer.
Reboot computer to fat partition (which is should do by default).
Create autoexec.bat file that contains:
cd c:\isolinux
loadllin @kernelscriptname

Reboot, and so long as youve applied the "boot" tag to an amiga os partition amithlon should now boot into os3.9.

The default "kernelscriptname" is either "small" or "amithlon", but personally Ive editted them and just renamed to "test". The editting is essential for updating to a later kernel and mostly just required removing "emubox.gz" (name of old kernel) with the name of the new kernel ("kern310" in my case).
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2011, 03:11:46 PM »
@bbond007

By the sounds of it both would be roughly on par in terms of end results, so I guess just use whichever one gives you less grief  :)

The p4 (from an amithlon perspective) might be fractionally faster (although I think maybe an athlon mp might have a larger cache than a normal xp cpu? (which helps with emulation)), but also p45 chipsets tend to work quite well.

Although in the early years amithlon was a better match for amd hardware intel support has probably surpassed it.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2011, 03:53:35 PM »
@Haywirepc

**updated enough for now, will get back to it later**

Sorry, I was in a little rush when I wrote the initial reply about installing amithlon and I probably didnt explain things too well.  

I'll write this stuff in detail, both in the form of "how" and also "why". It's actually not as complicated as it might sound and once a person goes through it, it all makes sense, but as with anything can sound a bit daunting without hands-ons use.

Maybe this post could be pointed to in the future or copied and pasted elsewhere?

Anyway, it goes a little something like:

Well firstly amithlon is a little different to most emulators. To simplify things a little its more a way to run amiga os3.x on pc hardware rather than something like uae which emulates an entire amiga utilising many host os features.

Harddrives:
Amiga OS uses rdb. Both a "real" amiga and a harddisk image in winuae do and so does amithlon. In short its what amiga drives use. Unfortunately pcs dont cant boot from this, but instead use mbr. Both cannot co-exist in "normal" circumstances.

Because of this a mbr must be used to actually boot an os. This is why a fat partition needs to be created. To copy the bootloader, etc. to. From there the amiga os drive is "initiated". This (the amiga drive) can be a physical drive or an amithlonvirtualdisk "partition" (or other storage media if a person has a mind to). If you have more than 1 physical hardrive and its practical installing the bootloader to the non AmigaOS drive has an advantage or two, but really way either is fine.
Both methods have pros and cons. A dedicated amigaos only/rdb disk can be swapped back and forward between an amiga and winuae more easily, but using a small fat partition on the same drive doesnt rely on external media, or another harddrive to boot.

Right now Im just using 1 drive, but I have does it other ways too.

Installing to harddrive:
Now to setup with 1 drive I first created a "boot" partition. I just used a win98boot disk, used fdisk, created a 50meg partition and did a system format on that partition (format c:/s). A FreeDos cd should also be fine.

Once that was done I copied the entire isolinux directory from the amithlon cd. This was done by simply used "md c:\isolinux", then going into the isolinux directory on the cd and doing a "copy *.* c:\isolinux".

Ok then, amithlon files copied across and we're nearly ready to boot however we've not yet set up a harddrive for amiga os yet. There's plenty of ways to do this, but personally I like to have an aros nightly disc on hand as it can be handy for dealing with amiga os harddrives. To set up the amiga drive with aros load up aros hdtoolbox and create a new partition with type amithlonvirtualhardisk (type76 I believe). Save the changes and youre good to go.

Reboot the computer, but this time with the amithlon cd and let it boot into the minimal amiga os setup it provides. Once youve done that load up hdtoolbox. Select your harddrive and you should see the "harddisk" we created with aros hdtoolbox. You'll see both the actual physical harddrive and the virtual disk we created here. Make sure you dont select the physical disk or you'll undo the work we already did. Select and partition to your liking. Make sure to set the partition you want to boot with (check the boot box).

Once youve done that format the unitialized partitions that appear on the desktop (a quick format will suffice). Youre then ready to install amiga os, which is in the amigaos3.9 directory on the amithlon cd.

Remove the cd and do a ctrl+amiga+amiga and AmigaOS3.9 should boot from harddrive.

We're not quite done yet though. If you recall we booted from cd here, and there's just one more step before it'll boot from harddrive. Boot back to your fat dos/freedos partition and create an autoexec.bat file. This just needs to contain "cd c:\isolinux" and one the next line, "loadlin @amithlon".

Autoexec.bat I guess is something like amiga oses startup sequence and the above simply tells the computer to change to the bootloader directory (isolinux) and use it with the script named "amithlon" (which selects kernel and applies a few properties).

All being right in the world and you should be good to go.

Common problems at this point:

Problem: I only get a 640x480x8bit screenmode.

Why: One fo 2 things. Youve either not installed the Amithlon updates or your hardware isnt supported by the kernel youre using. No OS will work without the drivers setup. Why should Amithlon/OS3.9 be different?
Solution: Install the amithlonupdate archive found on aminet. If this doesnt fix things update the kernel (see Updating Kernel section(to be added shortly)).

Problem: Screen image is a garbled mess. Somethings happening, but I cant see what.

Why. This is usually just the kickstart3.1 screen. The movement you see is the disc inserting. It usually occurs either when the OS isnt yet installed, not boot partition is selected for amigaos, or hardware wasnt initialised properly, which goes back to a problem with your "boot" partition. Usuaully a kernel or script problem in this case.
Solution: Either install AmigaOS, set the boot tab on the partition you want to boot from, or double check everything in your fat "boot" partition".

Problem: Screen image is garbled, but it looks like the image is AmigaOS in some form (very grey with black lines).

Why: most common cause of this is that an Amiga drive has been partitioned, and a boot tab selected, but no OS installed.
Solution: hold both mouse buttons down and boot from hdh0: then unselect boot tab, install amigaos, and reselect boot tab. If no hdh0: is available then an AROS live booting disc + aros hdtoolbox can be used to unselect the boot tab on the amiga drive.

Updating The Kernel:

Seeing as the Amithlon kernel is located on a fat partition we need to access this somehow. If a person has installed the Amithlonupdate archive they can simply bring up a shell and type "setconfig dosmount "" and reboot. This will mount the fat partition on the Workbench. Of course you dont need to do it through amigaos, it all depends on how your computer is setup. DOS, Windows, whatever, its all fine. Once you have access to your isolinux directory on the fat partition simply copy the kernel your updating over and we're halfway there. Once that's done you need to edit the files called "amithlon", which is simply a script that decides the kernel and a few properties.

Change it so it reads:
kernel4 init=/linuxrc console_level=0 root=/dev/ram0 initrd=smallird.gz vga=769 ramdisk_size+2410 leavepages=5400

Its actually pretty close to how it originally is. Ive simply changed the 1st word (the kernel filename) and added a little to ramdisk_size and leavepages.
Either back-up original script under a different name 1st or save this changed script under a different name though, if only incase of typos. If you change the new scripts name though make sure you change you autoexec.bat file to make loadlin use the new script. At the moment it should be loadlin @amithlon.


n.b. Still in process of updating........
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 10:20:16 AM by fishy_fiz »
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 04:07:14 PM »
@bbond007

Yeah may as well remove the 2nd cpu I guess as it wont be used.

As for video card I guess it depends on what a person wants from it. A gf5950 is the fastest supported card with full 2d acceleration, but matrox card can have dual monitor display. Personally Ive taken a liking to my Matrox g550. Both outputs work and it seems a very flexible card for making custom p96 screenmodes.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 07:57:31 AM »
Ah, ok. "Normal" Amithlon isnt like that. Sounds like these are unofficial (and to be brutally honest it sounds cumbersome).

The 640x480x8bit screenmode with the "rescue" disk sounds like its simly using vesa modes, and without the amithlon update.

I'll update my previous lengthy explanation and fill in gaps (and correct a few typos that may potentially confuse things)......

edit: I'll mark the top of that post as "updated" or similar so people know when its done (might take a while is all and its quite likely some people will read it between now and then).
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 08:04:52 AM by fishy_fiz »
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 09:09:34 AM »
Sorry, Ive not updated the earlier post yet. Real life got in the way. I'll do it shortly.
As for the gf 5200 I can only say "possibly" as to whether or not it'll work. Some gf 5xxx series cards work, some dont. Ive had a 5200 that worked and 1 that didnt. A gf pcx 5300 didnt (essentially gf5200 on pci express interface). A gf5500 did a, gf5700 didnt, a gf5700 ulta did. Theyre all Ive tried, but Ive heard similar hit and miss stories from other who have used gf5 cards.
From what Ive seen and heard 5200 and 5500 are the 2 that seem to have the highest success rate.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 09:40:25 AM »
The thing is though Amithlon is actually quite simple once you understand it. Takes about 10 minutes in total to get it installed, including installing AmigaOS.
 The "garbled screen" is just the normal "insert disc" kickstart3.1 screen. It often goes wonky. Only shows up when things arent setup right and it being garbled means nothing in regards to whether the gfx card is supported or not.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 10:50:31 AM »
Despite the hours Ive spent typing these "guides" I must admit Amithlon may not even be a better option for you. I guess it comes down to what a person wants. If you want an AmigaOS sytem Id chose amithlon any day of the week, if I played classic games more than I used the OS then Winuae might be a simpler option.

Are you (rhetorical) willing/wanting to install a tcp/ip stack? Care to set up and learn e-uae, define def icons to auto launch adfs, install things like EUAE-Load to be able to play whdload games and use custom chip banging apps, install rtg patches, create custom p96 screenmodes, etc, etc.?

It's kinda dumbed down, but easier to use for some things vs. faster, more authentic (minus custom chipset) and soley relying on amigaOS.
It is a learning experience if youre used to Winuae though. Many Winuae users might be a bit lost when trying to rely soley on AmigaOS.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show all replies
Re: Help me build an amithlon machine? Please?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2011, 11:22:14 AM »
@bbond007

Cool, should work nicely. If/when you do get around to getting an amithlon machine up and running properly Id be interested to hear if you get any artifacts. I used a g200 briefly before finding the g550 card and while it was nicely supported I did get a bit of screen garbage from time to time. A "refresh" from drop down menus in Workbench fixed it, but it was always just a matter of time before it happened again.

I suspect though it was the card itself rather than amithlon/os3.9, but I never found out for sure.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.