man, the C64 had all the cool shoot em ups

[fishy_fiz]

I really liked Retrograde as well. Not exactly a standard shooter, but probably fits in the category still. C64 Rtype I enjoyed, even if it is a little different to the arcade/amiga version (loved it in the arcades and was pretty happy with the amiga port). Katakis is a great game, better than the official Rtype port. Armalyte I really liked too. It's a shame the amiga version isnt just a straight port with enhanced gfx, as while it looks nice enough it's a pretty average game at best. One of my favorite c64 shooters though was iO. Was the 1st game I bought rather than trading with friends at school. Graphics are on par with those of Armalyte in my opinion, an was released beforehand. It never got the attention it deserved, again, in my opinion. Forgotten Worlds I quite enoyed on C64 as well, and was another game that I bought (they were few and far between when I was an adolescant/early teen).

So, yes, as the topic suggests, I guess the c64 did have lots of good shooters   These are just the ones I played more than others, and without having been particularly a fan of genre (not to say I disliked it though).

One game I would love to see though is MetalDust. I've seen some videos on you tube and it looks very impressive. Resolution and color palette aside the graphics effects are as impressive as any amiga shooter I've played with multi layer full screen parallax, near full screen enemies, animated backgrounds, etc. Unfortunately SCPU's arent common, nor cheap (and required for MetalDust)
Maybe one day  

[fishy_fiz]

Ah, speaking of c64 shooters, I just noticed there's a c64 seuck contest on at the moment (finishes 5 dec.). I might have a rushed attempt at an entry  

[fishy_fiz]

Sure, the conversions often werent great conversions, but some good games were made from them (salamander,rtype,nemesis,forgotten worlds, etc, etc.). However, conversions were often inferiror to the c64's original titles. Still one of the best 2d shooter platforms around. C64 vs. nes or msx for shooters ? You're joking right ? The c64 blitzed them both. One or 2 excpetions doesnt change this fact. Also, I never understood how the MSX received a good reputation for shooters. Speccy style graphics with inferior movement isnt the best formula for a good 2d shooter.

[fishy_fiz]

Why do you blame the VIC-II. Any particular reason, or are you just saying it for fun ? What aspect of the VIC-II do you blame for this ?  Additionally I wonder if you actually know anything about it other than the name ? As it is it sounds like you're deliberately trying to provoke responses from people. If that's something you enjoy then good luck to you.
As for the CPU, a 7.16 mhz HuC6280A is far from the same thing as a 6502. Sure they share some herritage, but so does a 80286 and an i7.

[fishy_fiz]

You keep mentioning conversions, but that's far from a benchmark for what a machine capable of, especially in the early 80's. Much like the Amiga games designed for the machine show what it's capable of more often than badly coded conversions. Gimme Katakis, iO, Armalyte, Citadel, Cybernoid, and a bunch of others over the arcade conversions anyday. Also, just because conversions are poor doesnt mean the machine isnt up to the task (hmm,... this is familiar). Unlike some of the systems you've mentioned developers of c64 ports seldom received the same sort of help that was given to big name Asian compaines. Even if it's not (up to a particular task) so freaking what ?

End of the day the c64 had some great shooters, regardless of what other machines did better/worse.

[fishy_fiz]

were talking about shooters.  That includes them all.  including the shoddy conversions.  I wasnt the only one who mentioned them so dont go acting like I went and did the unthinkable or some shit.
 
if the conversions blow, thats not good.  The games that defined the genre blow on the c64, and you dont see it as a problem because Katakis and Armalyte are around? euhhh.   I don't think like 5 ok shooters make up for all the conversions sucking.
 
whats next, Lions of the Universe is the holy (hahah) grail of c64 shooters?

I never said (or even implied) there was anything wrong with pointing out that a lot of c64 shooter conversions werent good, heck, even I did it, merely that it's not the way to judge a genre on a particular system, as most of your posts have alluded to (you even bought up double dragon for Pete's sake).
Just a thought but maybe you should stop clutching at straws here trying to dismiss c64 shooters. By now you're just embarassing yourself. Everyone else seems to see it, but you continue to argue for the sake of arguing. Let it go dude, it's more than obvious most dont agree with you. To each his own.

[fishy_fiz]

Err,... you might want to keep track of things. It's all in this thread so changing your tune, etc. doesnt really work. What youve just now said you didnt say to me was quoted from my response to something you addressed to me.

As I suggested earlier it mightn't be a bad idea to call it quits here. You're doing yourself no favors.

[fishy_fiz]

well, i'm done talking to him.

Did anyone ever play IO, i got it  as a budget release, that was pretty cool.
Also, http://c64s.com/ has an online emu, so I'm going to try some of these as they are mentioned.

Yep, I loved IO. Was the first game I bought if I recall correctly. Pretty difficult game, but I eventually managed to complete it. Quite nice graphics for the C64 and cool end of level bad guys too.

[fishy_fiz]

All this is irrelevant since Radiant Silvergun owns all other shooters that exist ever!!

Hehe. Fantastic game, but also probably the most expensive shooter ever  (now at least)

Another machine who's original titles are typically more impressive than its versions of multiformat games and/or conversions.

[fishy_fiz]

The first post mentions 4 games, but the first game, Katakis for example, I know was available for the Amiga too.

Apart from the name and both being heavily "inspired" by RType theyre completely different games. The c64 game is much better than the Amiga game in my opinion, both technically (massive multiplexed sprites, paralax scrolling and other assorted effects) and gameplay wise.

As for comparisons between systems, I dont think that should be a problem. Sure graphics and sound will vary, but the basic formula for a 2d shooter should mean that audiovisual shortcomings shouldnt be a factor in the quality of the games themselves. There's Spectrum shooters Id prefer than some "modern" pc/xbox360/ps3 shooters and some Saturn shooters Id prefer than Gameboy stuff and all the possibilities in between.
A good game is a good game, regardless of what machine it's on.

As for the Amstrad CPC, yeah I agree, it's palette was quite nice, albiet slighty over saturated colors. More recent versions however had 4096 colors if I recall correctly. At least in the case of the GX4000. I can only assume that same hardware made its way to the computers too ?

[fishy_fiz]

While the PC-Engine has some ok shooters I wouldnt say theyre any better than what's available elsewhere. Graphics, sure, theyre better than c64 shooters, but the games themselves are no better on average. Theyre mostly generic eastern style with nothing to make them stand out from others of the same style.

Yes, that's right, some people do have different tastes.....