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Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« on: June 16, 2010, 12:23:11 PM »
I use it on an AmigaOne XE and love it. Your own experience will of course depend on what you'd like to do with it and what are your expectations.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2010, 03:12:17 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;564846
It's fine although it's slower and more primitive than MorphOS*(it's quite noticeable if you compare MorphOS1.4.5 and OS4 on Classics, it's slower in almost every way: 2d graphics, 3d graphics, hd access, worst access to other filesystems, slower/worse usb support...). Lack of cheap hardware doesn't make it funnier. OS4 alpha-beta software (even SDL ports) are usually announced like they had discovered sliced bread even thought it's usually released 4-5 years later than stable MorphOS ports.

I don't know much software for OS4 which is labelled as alpha/beta, most of the software released there are stable versions, and not all of the software for OS4 has a MOS version.

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 Commercial software like DvPlayer is worse than free MorphOS software like MPlayer.

Not a problem since MPlayer exists for OS4 too, and it's free as well. From my experience, DVPlayer handle DVDs better than MPlayer.

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 They had to do bounties to bring Apache+MySQL+PHP to OS4 while MorphOS users enjoyed it since the beginning.

Who cares how a software has been ported, what's important is that the software exists :-)

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OS4 hardware is usually both slower and more expensive.

You cannot really compare prices since all the hardware available for MOS is second-hand only.

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 When they released Sam440 5 years later than Peg2/G4 they did that at the same price despiting it was much slower. Today Peg2 is still faster than the machines released 5 years later (Sam440).

We'll see how will the Sam460 compare with the Peg2, the new Sam should be shipping in September I have read.

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I switched to MorphOS on a G4/1.5Ghz Mac Mini and I'm happy now. Most of my friends who are still active amiga users have jumped to MorphOS too. We can enjoy a decent computer right now without waiting for vapourware. Try to watch HD video on those Sam440. Try to watch youtube directly in your browser on a Sam440. With Fab's OWB even on an old Peg1 with g3/600 youtube videos are played smoothly fullscreen without the need of 3rd party apps like getvideo/tubexx.

That will be probably fixed with a future Timberwolf release with support for HTML5 videos. BTW MOS currently lacks a Firefox port.

Ok, now you have listed all the negative aspects of OS4, now you are missing the positive one :-)

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2010, 04:38:39 PM »
Quote from: Fab;564889
Erm, MPlayer has more complete and faster support for DVD than DVPlayer (and don't blame the DVPlayer author, it's really quite some work to support it fully, even when reusing ffmpeg), and it even supports DVD menus (experimental, though). Whether the OS4 MPlayer port supports all this correctly is another matter. :)

My comparison was in fact with the OS4 version of MPlayer, since runequester was asking only about OS4 on its own.

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Timberwolf already has HTML5 video support, but only for Theora, not H264, which is used in Youtube, Dailymotion, Vimeo and a couple others. However, google is pushing its VP8 codec. So, if FireFox 3.7 is ported to OS4, you'll get VP8 support, and only then, you'll have a chance to play youtube in timberwolf (except if you get flash first, but i seriously doubt it).

The Friedens are working on the Firefox 3.7 codebase now:

http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=network/browser/timberwolf_install.lha

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2010, 07:26:52 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;564900
I can't think of much OS4 software without better MorphOS equivalent.

Some of them are quite important, though: Abiword and Gnumeric, or Timberwolf.

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 Most software news for OS4 consist in SDL ports compiled with "make" with almost 0 changes. When the port is slightly difficult it usually comes from MorphOS ports that were done years ago.

Where did you get this information?

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Perhaps with OS4 Mplayer version, that always has lagged behind MorphOS one (MorphOS*version was the original port that made possible AROS/OS4/OS3 ports and it's the one better maintained and most stable).

And it's only with the Os4 version that you should do the comparison, since the original poster has asked opinion on OS4 itself, not a comparison with MOS or other OSes. The fact that OS4's version of Mplayer lags behind MOS' one doesn't make it less useful.

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well, my point is that a lot of software already exists in MorphOS right now without spamming amiga webs with newsitems about quick ports.

Which is not the topic of this thread.

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Of course I can.*Efikas are new and cost 99$.

AFAIK Efikas are still sold as new, but they are not produced anymore. Anyway, Efikas are more limited in specs and expandibility than Sams.

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 OS4 owners don't have problems in using second hand hardware either (just look at the amount of betatesters that sold their uA1s when Pegasos2 port was announced).

Ok, but then compare second hand OS4 machines with second hand ones for MOS.

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I can buy various*Mac Minis for the price of a full Sam440.

You can buy various USED Mac Minis for the price of an USED Sam440, perhaps.

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Well, I would expect that any hardware released 5 years later and sold at a similar price should be both faster and better.

I hoped that too, but it seems that ACube's financial possibilities at the time were too limited to allow it.

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 That Sam460 is a hackish board

Define hackish.

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 with some strange incompatibilities that block SATA if you want to fit a proper gfx card so users are forced to fit a PCI*SATA card in the PCI slot.

Why? Are gfx cards incompatible with 4x slots, and work only in 1x ones?

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 Anyway that embedded cpu only has a few KB of L2 cache (so it really needs DDR ram) and lacks Altivec instrutions*(something not wise for a Multimedia computer).

But how much will these two missing features affect the overall performance of the board?

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 For OS4 users Peg2 is still much better option that L2-Cache less Sam440

Unless the buyer isn't more interested in new hardware.

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It's not about quantity but quality: MorphOS OWB is way better than Timberwolf, I can already watch youtube videos fullscreen on an old Peg1/600 directly. BTW, MorphOS OWB is way ahead than Strohmayer's OWB*port too.

How many plugins are available for OWB, compared to Firefox?

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If we take into account the quality of past Frieden ports:*Quake3, Blender... there's nothing that makes us think that they are going to be able to release a finished, polished version in a reasonable timeframe.

What you don't like about theirs Quake3 port?

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 09:23:39 PM »
Quote from: Piru;564928
MorphOS OWB: 1 *
OS4 Timberwolf: 0

We are talking about plugins here, the ones you can check with about:plugins right?

Check the generic meaning of plug-in, then see the context of my question to find out what I was referring to.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 09:48:36 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;564942
X11 ports? no thanks. Any x11 thing on Amiga is an example of quick'n'dirty port that should have never been published.

What make you say that's quick and dirty? By how stable it is, by its number of feature?

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Timberwolf port is primitive and not really useable compared to any real browser. It's funny you present a pre-alpha crashy thing as a flagship.

And yet it's so far the best software on OS4 to e.g. download videos and mp3s from many sites. I find it funny that you imply that it's not usable at all.

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go to os4depot. If you take away quick SDL ports and unix cli command apps there's nothing much left that worths to be listed.

And by taking away all the SDL and Unix ports I should realise that every SDL port made for OS4 needed no change to the makefile, or it was derived from MOS? How do you make that connection?

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Since he has the chance of running a better MPlayer version in a Peg2 thanks to MorphOS I think it's quite related.

What I see from his question is just "how is OS4", I don't read it as a "please tell me what's the best Amiga environment out there".

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I could say that any ACube hardware is not produced anymore since the produce just a few dozens of boards from time to time.

Well, it's just a matter of reference. I could also say that x86 PCs are not produced since they are being produced since only around 30 years which is nothing compared to 2000 years of no PC being produced. But if you choose a reference which is different you really can't continue a discussion.

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 Efikas may be limited but still only cost a fraction of the price of Sam440 and you can try out MorphOS on them for free (just like in any other hardware like Peg2/Mac Mini/PPC*Classics) while you have to pay around 500Euros to try out OS4 on Sam440.

But Sams are more powerful than Efikas, so the increase in price can be justified. And besides, MOS is anyway OT here.

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 I bet the limited Efikas will run Quake2 faster than a 50% faster Sam440. And USB file transfer also works faster on Efikas despiting its limitations.

This doesn't help much since OS4 doesn't run on Efika.

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No problem, take any eMac/Mac Mini and enjoy the power of altivec now.

Well, you proposed a comparation between OS4 and MOS machines, I guess it's your turn to compare them too.

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The same story Eyetech and others told us: buy this thing you don't really want so we get more money to produce the thing you want.

Wow, so you're implying I didn't want to get my AmigaOne?

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 We would be in a far better situation if Moana had been released.*3rd party hardware producers could still release new hardware for those who think having new prototypes sold to endusers is important.

What is the problem with these?

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Sam460.After plugging a decent gfx card and a SATA*PCI card you will have 0 free slots, nothing brilliant.

So, "hackish" = "you don't like".

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small cache will make that emulators runs slowly and lack of Altivec will hit multimedia performance and even old Pegasos2/G4 performance may be higher.

Ok, so now you're saying that a Sam460 might not be worse that a Pegasos2 G4. I agree with that.

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If buying new prototypes hardly tested, hard to replace and with G2s cpus from decades ago is your idea of "new"...

No, my idea of new is something that hasn't been produced years ago and that has no valid warranty. BTW where did you read that Sams are "prototypes" and "hardly tested"?

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 I prefer hardware well tested produced in hundreds of thousands of units, easy to replace, faster and cheaper.

That's the point... *you* prefer. That's different that saying that for OS4 users Peg2 are a better choice than Sams.

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Does any of those Timberwolf plugins allow you to watch youtube videos fullscreen?*no? too bad.

So the only use for a plugin is to support Flash? I use a plugin to download videos from various sites, but judging from your above sentence it shouldn't be considered useful.

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It's slow and buggy and even they aknowledged it when it was released "as is".

And yet me and other people find it to be useful even if it's alpha.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 09:50:40 PM »
Quote from: Piru;564958
In a generic meaning OS4 still can't play youtube in a browser.

I don't think this changes the number of plug-ins available for Firefox.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 10:04:19 PM »
Quote from: Piru;564964
The number of plug-ins for certain platform has nothing to do with Firefox. NSAPI plug-ins are generic and either they're available for certain platform or they're not. These plug-ins commonly include flash, java and various media players. Porting Firefox for your platform doesn't give you these plug-ins.

As far as I can tell OS4 has 0 NSAPI plug-ins. Please educate me if I'm wrong.

Check again the context where I have used the word "plug-in", and see if its meaning was meant to be about "NSAPI plugins" or a more generic use of "plug-in" as in "software add-on".

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2010, 10:06:10 PM »
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And someone told him that no matter how fun OS4 might be, MorphOS will be *ahelluvalot more* fun, since it's essentially the same thing only a lot better and more competent, and you know what - He was absolutely right! ;)

And possibly he didn't wanted a detailed description of only the negative parts of OS4 compared to MOS, but just to know "how fun OS4 is".

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2010, 10:34:51 PM »
Quote from: Piru;564974
It helps to use the correct terms.

Not in this case, since it was easy to understand what that term was referring to, so it was unnecessary to suggest an interpretation which was in contrast with the context.

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But yeah OWB for MorphOS does offer some extensions such as "userscript manager". It's greasemonkey-like (javascript to modify webpages on the fly). Very useful stuff, it can be used to perform all kind of useful tricks, such as fixing the ever changing youtube full screen mode.

OWB also has a Web Inspector extension functionality which is very useful when writing your own web pages.

Adblock extension functionality is built-in as well.

Still I don't think that it reaches the number, and the immediate availability of useful add-ons for Firefox to make a port of firefox not worth.

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Which leaves exactly one extension that I'd like to have, but which isn't really essential: Tamper Data.

Many other users have many wishes, e.g. OWB for MOS doesn't have the plug-in I use on Timberwolf.

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As for downloading stuff: OWB does just fine with the Download manager (built-in). I understand OS4 users though, download manager must seem very advanced technology considering OS4 OWB still doesn't include one (?).

Does that mean that OWB has all the functions available on DownloadHelper integrated, i.e. supporting the download of video and audio from the same number of supported sites, and optional on the fly video-video or video-audio conversion?

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2010, 10:37:41 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;564980
And so is praising it at this early alpha stage...

Well, thanks to it I can do one thing now that previously I couldn't on OS4... why shouldn't I praise it?

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2010, 10:40:51 PM »
Quote from: runequester;564976
Thanks for all the information.
I have no interest in Morph at this time though, so can we please return the conversation to OS 4 ?

I wonder what Crumb will say now, after implying all the time that runequester's question justified an OS4 - MOS comparison choosing only the negative aspects of OS4.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2010, 11:03:38 PM »
Quote from: itix;564987
Out of interest, what is it? :-)

Downloading videos and MP3s from various sites which weren't supported by ClipDown, which uses GetVideo. I hope to make also the on-fly conversion to mp3 via mencoder/ffmpeg work, which would be VERY handy, although I could probably do the latter via an arexx script.
Another useful plugin is DownThemAll, which automatically downloads all the links available in a page with the possibility to select a filter on the type of the linked files. I got this add-on almost working in Timberwolf, too.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2010, 11:05:54 PM »
Quote from: Fab;564988
That's basically what something like getvideo does. And getvideo can be integrated very easily to OWB in contextmenus.

Only that getvideo doesn't support the sites I need. And no, I'm not talking about porn sites, btw there's also an option to filter them out, activated by default :)

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2010, 11:09:46 PM »
Quote from: Piru;564991
I use Iceweasel on Debian GNU/Linux and Firefox on Mac OS X daily. There are no extensions that I'd need for the OWB. The most important extensions (adblock, web inspector, greasemonkey) are already covered. Obviously this is personal taste and need, there's no denying that Firefox has an extensive add-on library. I just can't think of any of them I'd need desperately.

I agree with that. What Crumb said is that no-one would ever find the actual version of Timberwolf to be usable, and I wanted to correct him.

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Then again OS4 Timberwolf requires some work to be actually useful as the daily browser. And even if it does reach maturity at some point it still lacks basic features such as flash.

Meanwhile MorphOS users can enjoy full experience with a mature OWB browser, with flash and well working html5. So in that sense MorphOS still reigns, regardless of the Timberwolf alpha.

That is of course true. The point was that Timberwolf can be already seen as an advantage to OWB by some, and the number will probably grow the more it will mature.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/