Where Do We Draw The Line?

[MiAmigo]

Almost everyday, I spend a significant amount of time on Aminet looking for applications to enhance my OS3.9 environment. (Note to self: Get my life back!). As the days went by, I noticed that doing this always made me feel a little ‘guilty’ but I never could put my finger on why. It actually took me quite some time to realize the answer to those nagging feelings of guilt. It was because I was kind of uncomfortable with the fact that, piece-by-piece, what I’m actually doing (without even admitting it to myself) is no less than trying to recreate my Windows environment on the Amiga. This idea unsettled me a little, since one of the main reasons I got the thing was to get a break from what I considered all the things that are ‘wrong’ with PCs in general, and Windows in particular.

But, then I had to admit, attempting to ignoring the fact that there are actually ‘good’ things about Windows (that have evolved over the years from customer use and input) is like ‘throwing out the baby with the bath water’, and denying myself some real conveniences. Things like proper handling of long filenames, right-click menus and scroll wheels, ‘auto-arrange’ to keep icons neat and orderly, and controls that allow a user to resize a window without having the drag the damn thing by a corner every-single-time!

So, yeah, I decided, I do like those features, and its actually NOT wrong to want them on my Amiga, but, where do I draw the line? Isn’t it true that the proliferation of such enhancements, taken to the extreme, is actually what bogs Windows down, make it huge, sloppy, bloated and buggy? (And the fact that its comprised mostly of lots of ‘spaghetti’ code, haphazardly thrown together in an inelegantly written mish-mash of C and VB, concocted by a dozens if not hundreds of nameless programmer-drones under the relentless taskmaster's whip of one W. Gates).

Well, while all that may be true, there is some ‘good’ left in Windows, as in all modern OSes. Having reconciled my guilt, now, all I have to do is decide when and where to stop adding ‘stuff’ to my Amiga environment, keeping it lean, mean, and clean, AND modern, and functional. So, I ask myself at each download, “Do I really need that screensaver-photo-rotator? Is it absolutely necessary to have the ‘right’ application pop up, whenever I insert a CD, or double-click on a file? Do I really want ANY application to gobble up my precious clock cycles by running constantly, even when I’m not using it? Can’t I do some of this stuff myself?  Just where DO I draw the line?”
 :juggler:

[MiAmigo]

JKD wrote:
From a certain perspective, a lot of the fun in owning a personal computer is making it just that....personal!

Just keep going until you can't stand the clutter/loss of speed and then buy a new (faster) machine and start all over again ;-)

You made me chuckle!  :-P That's how I screwed up all my Windows machines! (OOPS! I didn't say that! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!).

[MiAmigo]

billt wrote:
I think that one of the great things about the AmigaOS is that it IS so configurable. One of its strong points is that you can adjust things to be more the way you are comfortable with. If you happen to tend to like some things the way Windows does them, there's no foul in that, and you have every right to do it that way.

But realize that some of the things you mention aren't necessarily Windows-specific mimicing. You'll find a screensaver photo rotator for any OS, not just Windows. Unix systems has window resize on any edge. I use my mouse scrollwheel under Linux quite a bit...

I myself have done things to make it somewhat unix-like, enabling star-wildcards, aliasing unix command names to amiga shell commands, etc. I'm trying to install an X-window server/client on my Amiga, use openSSH, have Cygwin on my Windows PC, and wish there was X-windows, openssh, and subversion (successor to CVS) for OS4. I don't see why I should feel guilty about this.

Think about it this way. Would you rather have some neat feature running in AmigaOS that isn't put there by the AmigaOS install CD, or would you rather trade your "guilt" for "jealousy" of some other OS that has what you want your Amiga to do? Don't worry. Be happy.

You are correct sir, on several points. As a matter of fact, while adding capabilities to my machine, I, too, have added a few Linux/Unix like features, that I find very useful on those machines on my network. Things like a bsh shell, and a full suite of TCP/IP commands. I also added several search wildcards, which come in very handy if you cut your teeth on DOS, like I did, in those days following my move from the Amiga to the PC camp, way back in the day. But there's just so much on Aminet! I think its the largest centrally located  collection of downloadable software for one platform on the Internet! And sometimes, I feel like I want it all! Oh, what to choose!  :-o  :crazy:

[MiAmigo]

Yeah, what is that thing for, anyway? (Tools->ResetWB). I ofthen hit it when I'm bored, but it doesn't really do anything.

[MiAmigo]

FastRobPlus wrote:
I tend to draw the line at 1.3.  I just get that Kickstart disc near my maching and I get cold feet.  To much feature bloat if you ask me.

 :-)

 :-D

[MiAmigo]

B00tDisk wrote:

Wayne wrote:
It's really a catch-22.

I like XP.  It does everything I think an OS should, and everything I think AmigaOS should have done.  I don't think XP is perfect by any stretch of imagination, but I like it because it includes a lot of things that I don't have to even think about, like multi-user support, an IP stack, browser (even if I choose to use Mozilla), and media players.  

On the other hand, AmigaOS has none of that stuff to make it end-user friendly (like mom and pop friendly, not Amiga-geek friendly), but Amiga users always whine about how "putting all that crap in would add bloat and eliminate choices which is anti-Amiga" but that's really short-sighted.  Memory and hard drives are cheap, especially for the outdated slower PPC systems, so stop {bleep}ing about the resources.

My choice is to take the time to write the damned OS correctly, where -- on installation -- the user can decide whether he wants a base (pretty much non-networked) stripped-down AmigaOS 4 (so they can add their own toys) or they can choose to add in an IP stack and a browser, media players, etcetera.  In other words, bundle absolutely everything with the OS, but make it 100% user-choice to install any part of it (where possible).  

In that respect (and don't start in on this but) I think Genesi initially had the hint of the right idea with the Superbundle.  Unfortunately their licensing and execution is pretty much kerplunkt.

Wayne

All very well said, Wayne.  I, too, like XP.  Issues with IE aside, it does everything I want very, very well.  It's installation is turnkey.  I've always said that while you can fault MS for a great many things, at least they've helped drive technology: I'd much, much rather be playing with a 120gb HD than the 170MB hard drive my first PC had (it eventually wound up with bad sectors, and I had doublespaced it, and installed Win'95...what a mess).

If AmigaOS had a big footprint and had the features of WinXP, I wouldn't mind in the least.  These are not the days of $200 per megabyte RAM any more.  Bring on the features!

Same here. I like XP. A lot. But I also like key lime pie, and pecan pie. Doesn't mean I like what those things do to me, in the end (no pun intended!), or the fact that there are always *ahem* 'leaner' alternatives. And, as far as fully-tweakable environments, like 0S3.9, there is a 'thin line' where its hard to tell the difference between enough and too much.

[MiAmigo]

Actually, its not an 'apples versus oranges' comment, from the point of view of what the hardware can handle. In that sense, there is a point where 'too much' can be a problem, if the hardware simply can not handle the work load. Its all fine and good for the (mostly uninformed) user to load up his or her machine with stuff, just because of desire or need to do so, and quite another, if the machine simply can not handle it. And, it becomes quite a problem for Tech Support, and yes, even forums like this one, when those users want to complain about apps that don't work, or games that run too slow. Taking that into account, I would say that the 'thin line' is somewhere between 'what I want', and truthfully assessing what my computer can handle. In other words, if you try to run everything on an A500, that can be run on a fully tricked out A4000T, you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Not every example, of course, would be that extreme, but, I wonder how many requests for help seen on this very forum, could be eliminated entirely, if people would just work within the specs of their particular machine. The thin line is proportionally made fatter by the disparity between people's wants, and their machine's actual capacities and abilities, or the lack thereof.

[MiAmigo]

FastRobPlus wrote:
Dang it MiAmigo!  Now you're making me actually think about something!

In my brief experience at Amiga.org, I think I've identified 3 different Amiga personality types:

- Those who are here for pure nostalgia or collecting. (I'm in this bucket 100%)

- Those that use Amiga and want to be more productive with it and even get away from the mainstream OS'es entirely.  These guys war over PPC vs Coldfire, OS 3.x vs 4.0 vs MorphOS, etc, but they all want the same outcome - a viable 21st century Amiga.

- Those that use other OS'es primarily, but originally fell in love Amiga because of its technical excellence.  These are the guys who wax nostalgic about the Amiga doing things at 7MHz that commodity-grade clones could not muster the power to do at 100MHz.

Anyway - to answer your original question. I think it’s the 3rd group that tries to get their classic Amiga to do more than it was ever designed to do. After all, that is why they originally fell in love with it.  The bigger the challenge, the more satisfaction they get if they make it work.  As an Amiga 2000 owner, I think you fall in this bucket too, but are recently beginning to feel that you're asking so much of your 2000 that it's unrealistic.

My point is - there are a lot of Amiga users who derive joy from trying to get their systems to do the impossible.  It's part of why they are here in the first place.

:inquisitive:

You are super-correct, sir, on all accounts! Especially which category I fall into. It is my curse in this life to push the boundaries of everything I encounter, and the Amiga is no exception. It is also my curse (or gift) to never, ever admit that 'this thing can not be done' or 'this is not feasible' for whatever reason. So yes, I would like to see the Amiga reborn, fully realized, and have it once again take its place as the progenitor and purveyor of technological magic, as it once did. The funny thing? As 'amazing' (stir in a little sarcasm here) as PCs are today, nothing they've ever done has ever flat-out dumb-founded me, as the Amiga did, when it debuted. I think its the memory of that time that keeps us all coming back, and using a machine that, by all intents and purposes, died a long time ago. Its the memory of the wonders that keeps it alive in our hearts  (*choke!*).