AmigaOne clones?

[Alkemyst]

by neofree on 2002/12/30 21:02:27

Hey I signed the petition! Agree the hardware should just be POP like it says!

OK for thoses who sign things with out undserstanding what they are signing
& for thoes who dont understand that there are no POP PPC mobos out there for us to buy at the moment.

Understand this.

The Aone is not s pop mobo
THe Pegasos is not a pop mobo
The Mac is not a pop mobo.

There is no set standard like there is on the x86 mobo.

Every PPC mobo is different THERE IS NO STANDARD SET YET.

So even with out the dongle Aos4 will not just run on every PPC mobo.

A HAL will have to be coded for each type of PPC mobo that comes to market.

And for that you will need the mobo & the hardware docs to do that.

[Alkemyst]

by Skyraker on 2002/12/30 22:39:11

No, you miss the point, the dongle in itself is not a bad idea, just dont expect to see any companies cloning until eyetech has had it's fill....

AI will not licence anyone else until their 'partner' is satisfied... should be one hell of an orgasm.

Now thats what a call FUD.

What info have you been reading to come to that conclusion.


When & IF a PPC mobo maker offers up a mobo to get a Amiga Cert, that does not have its own competing clone of AmigaOS & then Amiga.inc turns them down then.
i would say you may have a point. but that has not happened.

[Alkemyst]

It's not FUD, it's just my opinion,

Sorry but i just cant see where you stated that it was just your opinion.


Besides there are no other ppc mobo makers out there anyway so its moot point to make.
there are no clones cos there are no clone makers in the first place.
so the amiga Cert has no effect.

[Alkemyst]

The whole bloody thing was my opinion....


non of it is based on fact , just my interpretation of events..... for ####s sake... why do i bother with teenagers

You should know by now that things are most likely to be taken as fact un less clearly stated as an opinion.


The fact you just started calling me names implys your the younger.

[Alkemyst]

ppl are focusing too much on the Protection to why they have no choice of PPC mobos to run Aos4 on.

If anyone thinks that the dongle code in the Aos4 rom is to just restrict choice & keep MAI & Eyetech the only mobo providers for AOS4
are ignoring the FACTS.

Even with out the protection code, Aos4 will still not run on the pegasos or any other PPC mobo that may come onto the market
unless Hyperiona gets a mobo & docs to write an amiga HAL for that mobo.

This is not the PC x86 market where a standard has been set.
Like write OS once for x86 & should work on all x86 mobos.

There is yet to be a standard set for PPC.

So infact they would not have to go Through all the trouble of a dongle to restrict choice.
They would just have to not write any HAL's for any other PPC mobos when they come to market.

So what would be the point in Making as much of Aos4 source code in portable C & having HAL Hardware Abstraction Layer if the whole plan is to run it on one mobo type.


And im not going to explain to ppl what a HAL is for.

The info is on the net for thoese who want to know.


I would say that seehund is doing more harm then good with his petition.

By taking his petition on to more general computing forums besides amigaonly one.
makes us look like a bunch of fanatics.

Any any ppl who are not still with the amiga or ppl who come across his petition,
either would be putoff by the bickering & think sod that im stay with MY PC/MAC or agree with the petitions
And say Sod that im not supporting Amiga.inc if they do that & will stay with his PC/MAC.

Most Terrorist do things for a good course but i think most would agree that thats not the way to go about it.

[Alkemyst]

[Alkemyst]

And your comments about the HAL and "portable" C would point to you having less knowledge about those topics then at very least most of the engineers on this board.
-Tig

My comment about C & HAL have come from what Hyperion have said.

They said they re-done things in C & used HAL Technic to make it easyer to port in future.

Hyperion said that a NEW HAL would have to be made for each Make of PPC mobo

[Alkemyst]

I have trouble believing that since Terrasoft has been working with MAI longer then Eyetech. Are you saying that the petition was started when Eyetech still thought they could design there own board??

Most ppl here knew nothing about Terrasoft & the MAI mobo untill lately.

No where on the petition does it mention Terrasoft & for a non dongled version of the board to run a non dongled version of Aos4 to run on it.

If the petiton was about the fact Terrasoft sells the same mobo  & no aos4 for it then yeah the petition would have a point, but it does not.

From Amiga Incs (and frankly Hyperions) it makes no sense to lock the OS to the Eyetech board. They get paid on unit sales, if they want to protect the OS from Piracy, put a real USB dongle on it, and let everyone buy it. Wayne would have a dozen topics on how to run the OS on Dual Mac G4s, IMacs, Terrasoft boards etc, if that was the case. Instead we have one supplier who blames Motorola for their inability to deliver boards one day before christmas.

Amiga.inc & Hyperion already said if a supplier comes forward with a USB dongle for there mobo then that would be concidered.
 
 

It is just the dongle issue, if there werent a dongle issue, the HAL issue would be handled by the community. Linux runs on the Macs, on the other PPC boards, there is enough info out there to make an Amiga OS run on the other PPC machines, its not that big an issue. The real issue is that even once 4.0 is out, I cant buy it without buying a very expensive (and slow) motherboard. Every single day of the year, Apple sells more PPC computers then Eyetech will sell for the entire year of 2003. There are over 15 million PPC macs sitting around, is that really a market that they should be uninterested in running their OS on??? Dont want OS 4.0 on a laptop???
-Tig

 
Aos4 is not open source & is not linux.
 

 
 

[Alkemyst]

Lets be real clear on this, this topic is not about the petition, this topic is about OS 4.0
being donglized to the Eyetech board. And just because you didnt know about Terrasoft, doesnt mean
that the MAI board didnt exist before the petition.

I siad most ppl i did not say that i did not know.

You are useing  TerraSoft  as an argument for the Petition when no other person was, when the
petition was made.

Explain how that would work, lets see, I would have to pay Hyperion to write a USB dongle
driver for their OS, then they would have to release a special version that used the USB Dongle (not
to be confused with Cool AmigaOne Rom Dongle (TM)) for its antipiracy feature, and then I have to buy
computers (or motherboards) that anyone can buy themselves and put them together and sell them so
noone gets AOS 4.0 without my cool dongle with it.
Instead they could have sold 1 package with the dongle and this whole issue would have been
moot.

they could have sold 1 package with the dongle and this whole issue would have been
moot.

Cool some one sees a nice looking PPC mobo buys Aos4 + USB dongle for all gets home & oh boy no HAL
yet made for it.

Or HAL was made by the community but Aos4 run flaky on that modo.
Ill just email Hyperion & complain.

Gee, thats news to all of us here, we were all confused and thought the Aos4 was open source
and Linux. See you really dont understand why what I said was important to the HAL do you??? Windows
isnt Open Source either, yet someone you can run windows on some pretty weird devices if you know
what you are doing, and work on it. But you can buy windows by itself, just like you can pretty much
all OS's, except Aos 4.0, got to buy an AmigaOne with it or run it on an old Amiga with a Phase 5
board (and I'm still pretty sure we'll see some form of copy protection on that) or that it will be
"different" then the AmigaOne version.
-Tig

i didnt say how important the HAL is Hyperion did.

Even in the x86 stand Windows does not run right on all mobos.
who gets the blame when that happends windows most of the time.

I would not want Aos4 to get blamed when it was the HW at fault or the badly coded HAL.

But avgjoe would know nothing about HAL & would not know that the AmigaPPC he/she had just bought
 had a badly coded HAL.

Hyperion would get email from loads of ppl blaming them.

The reason such things work on the linux platform cos most linux users are not the avg joe & know a
bit more about computers.

But in the end your aproach makes copying as easy as can be CD to CD.

The point of protection is NOT IF it will be will not be cracked.


The point is to make it hard as you can for the cracker & the user of the cracked version.


I can see by some of your comments that you have not been follwing all the events of the Aone & Aos4.
alot of your question have already been answered  by hyperion, here & on the Aos4 ML.

[Alkemyst]

i Get my info from the Aone & Aos4 ML.

Maybe you should to.


And the fact is dongle or no dongle if there is a lot of Os4 copying then its all over.


THE USB dongle can be cracked as well.
 
the hope is that enough ppl will buy Aone/Aos4 before it cracked.
 
some ppl say no protection at all very good for the users in the sort term but bad for the Aos4 coders thus no more Aos versions thus bad for the users.
& let it run on every type of PPC mobo huge choice for the users millions of AmigaOs users running copied version of Aos4.
 
But very little money for the Aos4 coders.
 
All firms do whats best for them first to keep then afloat.
The customers & users always come second weather you see it or not.

The only time they ever give customers/users what they want is if THEY can see gain by it & that gain is always £ first & form most.

 
Sometimes you get what you want & sometimes you dont.

If i had a new car making firm but all i could afford was to only sell it in one colour then that has to be that.
but there will  be ppl who would not buy the car cos of the colour & will say to that im cutting my own throat cos
im not given them more choice of colour & will be limiting my sale cos if it.

But they just dont undertand the cos upfront of given them wehat they want would kill my firm off out right.
When the sales of my one colour only car makes me just enough money to offer more choice of colours then i will do so.
Then i can afford to give the  customers more of what they want.
But i will only give them what they want if it brings me more money.

I will not give them what they want just cos its what they want if there would be no gain in money.
 
Aos4 is like a new Babe it need restriction just like a new babe untill it grown enough with in those
restriction to be able to stand on it own 2 feet.

in alot of cases in the computer & console market, giving to users & customers what the want strate away cost a HUGE amount of money.
Even  selling the Hardware at a Loss to keep it cheap to make it back on the software later on.

But to do that you will need HUGE reserves of money to hold out untill the scale of sales make a profit.

Aos4 can not do that.

[Alkemyst]

About the Aone ML

just like any other ML there are some good stuff & some bad stuff.

Take the rough with the smooth


Make it avail to as many ppl as they can.

your style is Aos4 with USB dongle.
that only would works on the MAI board at this time cos of the HAL.

wich you totally ignored.


Yes there are not millions of amigaOS users but there soon would be as if there was no protection in Aos4.

millions of a type of OS user's = nothing. you want millions of paying OS users.



no  wonder linux is the fastest growing OS on the x86 platform Its free most SW for it is free as well.
very little of pay for SW for linux is for the home user cos the linux home user dont want to pay.


For the part you dont understand about limiting the OS to the HW Apple seems to do ok.

You want a copy os Aos4 but not an Aone.
If its  cos you think the Aone is crap hardware then your on a no winner here.
cos atm Os4 will only run on the same HW with USB dongle, HAL only for MAI mobo atm & for amiga PPC cards.
 

[Alkemyst]

OK paul what the solution for ppl who want to run Aos4.

All you can do is moan & never offer any help.
 

I dont like how Amiga.inc done things anymore than you do.

but i would not knock ppl & call them Amiga.ink lovers cos they want to run the next version of the O|S they have liked & have beenuseing for years.
 
Maybe you have not noticed that Amiga.inc is not Making Aos4 & im glad they are not.

When you see me deffend Amiga.inc in a comment when they have clearly done yet another stupid thing then you then may have the right to call me An amiga.inc lover.

But i have not. so hold your mouth.

[Alkemyst]

Strange how MOS supporters come rushing in on a Aone topic.
 
Why should it matter to them about whats happening with the Aone/Aos4.
 
MOS ppl say that the Pegasos is better & that MOS is better.


So they should be happy & not worry about the products that are not as good & that they dont want, Aone/Aos4.

 
The Logic of all the concern is like me Buy Ibrowse 2.2 & saying this is the best browser so far.
Then worry if Ibrowse 1.2 was any good.