New pirate eBay goods: demo DVD

[CdreCommodore]

I found this today while searching around eBay.  The guy that's selling the Admin Edit: No need to give him free advertizing with Amiga disk images and roms has branched out and is now selling a DVD of Amiga demos.  This is a video DVD, not a data DVD-ROM.

While Googling for information about his DVD, I found this:  Here's the thread on another message board where he talks about making and selling it (scroll down to message #13).

I wish the Mindcandy guys would hurry up and finish their (legit) Amiga demo DVD project.  Are there any other fan compilations out there besides the Amiga Museum DVDs that can be downloaded?   :-?  There is a link at that other message board to two C64 demo DVDs you can download via BitTorrent.   :-)

[CdreCommodore]

The problem, in my not so humble opinion, is taking the work of others and selling it for a profit.  I sincerely doubt that demo creators created content so that other people could take and make money from it.

The Mindcandy guys get permission from the original groups to use their content.  Also, they don't just slap the demos on a DVD--they spend quite a bit of time and money collecting authenticate hardware to run the demos on.  They've put quite a bit of effort into doing high-quality PAL-to-NTSC conversion, and they add other features like bonus documentaries and commentaries.  The video quality on the Mindcandy Vol 1: PC Demos is amazing, and the disc is double-sided so you get four hours of content.  When you watch it, you know where your money went.

I have no problem with downloading fan compilations like those demo video DVDs and even DVDs full of old Amiga software, or paying someone for blanks and postage, but it's people trying to make money from it that ruins projects like TOSEC, CAPS (or SPS, or whatever it's called now), etc.

I ripped and shared my collection of Aminet CDs some time back (this was after they stopped making the CDs, please no flames :-) ), and one of the guys I shared them with started selling them on a web site.  I really felt like an idiot for wasting my time sharing almost 150 gigabytes.

And finally:

:horse:

[CdreCommodore]

On the other site you said:

(I'm betting they wouldn't be complaining if it was offered as a free download though) Bloody hypocrites!

I said exactly that.  Why is that hypocritical?  I have downloaded and enjoyed many fan compilations of demos.  The creators of that content created and distributed it for free, and there's no reason why the content can't be redistributed.

But taking their content and moving it another medium to try to sell it without their approval is lame.

You had five DVDs listed at 4 GBP each, 20 GBP total, approximately $35 USD right now.  There's no way it costs that much to burn five discs and mail them (discs only) to people in your own country.  You were offering them for 1 GBP to your friends at the other forum, and you turned down someone else who asked about it and told them to buy it from you on eBay.

That's not something a person does because they're a fan, that's something they do because they want to make a few quid.

If you're just trying to show off what you can do with the Amiga and spreading the word about the talents of demo coders, why not make use of this big distribution center for bits called the Internet?  You could spread it around without selling it.  Why not do it?

[CdreCommodore]

@Tomas

Do the mindcandy project somehow get permission from all the demo makers?

Like I said, yes.  See:  http://www.demodvd.org/contents

I was thinking of doing something similar myself, but instead host them on the internet for free in either mpeg2 or some mpeg4 format.

Requesting DVD ISO image, please.   :-D

If this would be illegal, then what about the amiga demoscene archive, back2roots and all other websites hosting public domain stuff??

None of those sites charge you for the content.

I dont know what he is charging for these demo dvds, since the link was removed by a moderator.

Like I said, he had five DVDs listed at 4 GBP each, 20 GBP total, approximately $35 USD.

You can download it for free over internet, but you must pay a small charge to have a cd shipped over to your address.

You can't download this guy's DVD.

[CdreCommodore]

I offered my mates one for a quid each at a loss (because they are mates).

By offering them to your mates, you are avoiding the eBay and other fees you complained about it.

Regardless, it does not cost 4 GBP/$7 USD to burn a disc and post it locally, even with eBay and other fees.  In USD, the insertion fee would be $0.35, the buy-it-now $0.05, the final value fee $0.37, PayPal fee $0.49, the envelope $0.50, and the postage $1.10 (assuming the disc is in a jewel case).  That leaves 2.36 GBP/$4.14 USD extra.

Totally lost the plot there didn't you? I never claimed that I made the demos!

I didn't say that you did.

I wasn't showing off anything, I was helping to spread great demos (which is what they were created for).

I agree that's what they're for!  But you're trying to spread them by selling them.  They're not yours to sell.

Like I said, you are a hypocrite, you complain because I sell something I took the trouble to make, but if I offered it to you as a free download we wouldn't get a peep out of you.

You did not make any of the content.  You used WinUAE to create AVIs of the demos, and you used some ready-made software to create menus and burn it all to DVD.  That does not entitle you to sell it, and you very well know that you wouldn't be able to sell your work if you didn't have any content to add value to it.

You are only {bleep}ing because you don't want to pay. Well if you don't want to pay for it, you aint getting it, simple eh?

You said that you just want to spread great demos.  There are plenty of other ways to spread them without selling them.  There are numerous other fan compilation DVDs out there that can be downloaded right now, so distribution via the Internet is not a problem.

Your demand that you be paid for it indicates that you're not just a fan trying to create something interesting for others to enjoy, it indicates that you are trying to make money.  QED.

[CdreCommodore]

I had considered offering it as a download, but judging by the amount of knobs like you in the community, I shan't bother.

No, you didn't want to offer it at all.  On the other site you said this in response to requests for a torrent:  "Well I was hoping to make a bit of cash from it, so its on ebay now. Doing a torrent would be a bit like shooting meself in the foot."

On the other site you also said:

Don't bother reading that other forum guys, its starting to get nasty and personal.

That is the exact reason why I never use the bigger site forums, because they are full of LAMMERZZZZ !!!!!

No, it's not nasty and personal in the least, except for a few comments from you and your shill Bubbles.  The people who disagree with you haven't attacked you in any way, and have actually given you the benefit of the doubt.

Someone else conceded that what you're trying to do is not as bad as what those people selling compilations of commercial games are doing, and, hell, I don't even have any moral problems with old commercial Amiga stuff being spread around for free on the Internet anyway (though I'd never offer things here).

What's actually happening here is that you're not gaining any converts and you haven't been successful in starting a flame war, and you don't want your mates to see it.

[CdreCommodore]

If you had even bothered looking at the ebay listing before spouting off you would have seen that my ad contained 3 supresize pics, and a thumbnail gallery listing, this cost about £2 to list. Get your facts straight!

Your images of the DVD menus are hosted on a Geocities site.  That's free.

The one image that was hosted on eBay's image hosting service is 400x400.  That's the "standard picture" size, and is also free.

The gallery image costs 0.13 GBP/$0.35 USD, or one-tenth of the 2 GBP/$3.50 USD you claimed.

At this point you are, inexplicably, telling bald-faced lies.  It's no wonder you don't want your mates coming over here to see this.  Even the people on *this* site who were on your side are going to have start reconsidering.

I never went anywhere near WinUAE, all the demos were captured using an external MPEG encoder hooked up to a real Amiga.

The method you used to move the content to a different medium does not defeat my argument:  You did not make any of the content.  You used a hardware device to capture the demos, and you used some ready-made software to create menus and burn it all to DVD.  That does not entitle you to sell it, and you very well know that you wouldn't be able to sell your work if you didn't have any content to add value to it.

You are forgetting that not everyone has the ability or knowledge to download and burn DVD's.

The fact that some people know how to burn DVDs and some don't has no relevance to the argument.

DEMAND?

Yes, demand.  "Well if you don't want to pay for it, you aint getting it."

You didn't do this because you are a fan.  You could simply torrent it or post it to Usenet or seek hosting at files.amiganostalgia.com or the Scene FTP server, but you don't want to.  

You did not want to share it with fans.  You wanted to make money.  You said so yourself.  "Well I was hoping to make a bit of cash from it, so its on ebay now.  Doing a torrent would be a bit like shooting meself in the foot."