Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: More Chipram  (Read 24643 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show all replies
Re: More Chipram
« on: September 04, 2006, 09:16:31 PM »
You'd just have to put in an 8M Alice, add some piggy back RAMs and change J214 to the 8M position.
However, the 8M Alice does not exist, so you'd have to do a bit of redesign... :-(
 

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show all replies
Re: More Chipram
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2006, 07:24:23 AM »

... and additional AGA modes like real chunky, lores truecolor etc. plus a Coldfire with hardware assisted 68k emulation (there were only 75 MHz EC060 or 66 MHz 060 around)...
 

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show all replies
Re: More Chipram
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2006, 08:47:47 PM »
Stacking four Agnuses/Alices could actually work
- completely separated chipset areas
- four complete (!) sets of custom chips
- stacking those chips wouldn't help too much, since you'd need four sets of chip busses as well
- complete rewrite of all hardware dependant parts in AOS (mucho gusto on that)
- rewrite of APIs to take care of allocating the right chipmem to get the right screen output/same with sound/floppy
=> no AOS compatibility on application level

I'm sure it's much easier to redesign Alice in FPGA - and that'd be a nice task anyway. Better redesign the system in whole like Dennis does. Chipset level compatibility must be a pain.
I'd like to get a solid foundation from Dennis' project to start from and then add expansions to that as needed. Might even get somewhere 'modern'...
 

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show all replies
Re: More Chipram
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2006, 06:03:39 PM »
[ ] leirbag knows what this is all about
  • DFTT
  • more than 2 MB chipmem can be emulated
  • it's rather easy to add some address lines to the board to use more than 2 Meg if the chipset could address it
  • there's no 8M Alice in this universe and probably never will be
  • 16 vs 32 bit has (mostly) to do with data bus size and not necessarily address bus size
  • if you like to have more chipmem, just set the MEMF_CHIP on a fastmem chunk and off you go!
 

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show all replies
Re: More Chipram
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2006, 07:54:04 PM »
Quote
leirbag28 wrote:

either in software ([...])  or in a Special Hardware that attaches to the custom Chips that emulates WinUAE in hardware so that there[...]


*ROFLMAO* This is getting ridiculous! Do you have any idea in which way hardware differs from software?? Go ahead, this is getting better and better - can't wait for the next bit!

Believing that hard beyond common sense, you should really go into theology!
 

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show all replies
Re: More Chipram
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2006, 10:56:59 PM »
@KThunder
The MMU style approach can't work in this case, since an MMU can only reuse a (relatively) small amount of memory in a larger amount of address space such that an application believes to see more memory than is present. To do this, the MMU monitors the address generated by the CPU (in this case) and the memory manager is used to move (swap in and out) the physical memory to the logical location where it's needed. (Obviously the data has to be stored in an adequately sized but probably slower location, i.e. a hard disc.)

It's very important that logical address space is greater than physical memory. This whole idea with enlarging chipmem tries to operate an amount of physical memory inside a logical address space (=everything the unit in question can address, in the case of Agnus/Alice = 2 MB) that is actually smaller - this is just the opposite and is not possible. Furthermore, paging data in and out requires time, which very clearly violates the realtime requirements needed for producing graphics output, sound and floppy data transfer.

Try to envision the good ol' 6502 CPU of the C64, VIC20 et al. It's got a 16 bit address bus and can see 64K of memory. There's no way it could see more, its world has a size of 65536 bytes. The only way to access more is to use a scheme of bank switching (which the C64 actually does) where the same location in memory is used to window different sets of data. Now, this obviously requires clever programming to ensure that the application always sees the data it's expecting. The only one able to tell which data is needed is the app itself, so it must have provisions to switch the banked data.
Back to the Amiga, the chipset (representing the application) lacks any capability of telling any added (and arbitrarily clever) hardware which bank it wants to see right now. So banking is not a solution.

In theory, it's of course possible to build some hardware that simply knows which address location/bank the chipset wants to access because it knows Agnus' inner workings and foresees which memory locations are really needed. However, this hardware must be able to simulate the complete chipset to actually make this forecast, so its obviously more complex than the chipset itself - and harder to design.

The only solution to this problem is to completely redesign Agnus/Alice, enlarge the address registers and add the required address lines (towards the CPU bridge and towards RAM). Patching the OS to recognize/utilize the larger space is close to trivial.
Because the Agnus/Alice chip not only houses the registers, address generators but also blitter, copper, RAM controller, DMA arbitration engine, etc. a redesign from scratch for a pin compatible chip is a tall task, most of today's logic isn't even signal compatible to the old chips!
 

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show all replies
Re: More Chipram
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2006, 09:15:57 AM »
The 'hardware UAE' you're talking about is pretty much the Minimig Dennis is working on - he remodels the functions of ECS, but without chipset level compatibility. He stated he used UAE as a source for detail knowledge, so that kind of makes Minimig a 'hardware UAE'. Let's wait for him to finish.
:popcorn: