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Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2005, 01:42:13 AM »
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2005, 12:14:59 PM »
In Oct of 2003 is when the price got lowered to $99
http://in.tech.yahoo.com/030924/137/28002.html

In late 2003/early 2004, they got rid of the progressive scan component and the gc went to profitability again from losing about $7-$8 for a couple of months.

So you are all ass-clowns as the GC has been profitable for 95+% of it's existence.  And that's the real point - isn't it?

As Revolution will be...

And if you really do the numbers...the GC was (as you claim) losing money for the better part of that fiscal year yet Nintendo doubled it's profits.  Coincidentally, when the GC went down to $99, it enjoyed a healthy and sustained sales boost.

Funny thing, prepubescent, is that the article you posted contradicts many of the claims about Nintendo hurting that you made in my 'potential PPC Amiga real cheap' thread which further iconifies your status as the Troll-king.

You claim I am reading between the lines!
You just posted an article telling you the GC was profitable even at $150 and would only be in single digit losses @ $99...
...that in of itself means you don't know what you are talkng about as you claimed it was always sold at a loss - it was your statement that started this not mine...allow me to quote you here:
Quote

Not true. Due to poor sales, production cost went up early on in the GCNs lifecycle. Couple that with price cuts to stay competitive and it's been losing Nintendo a ton of money. At ~$150 they were breaking even, at $100 they are losing money. Now at $100 with a pack-in and (new release) first party title they are losing even more.


...then Ninendo puts out the Rev C board with no Progressive Scan circuitry or connector in order to make it profitable again about 2 months after the price drop to $99...and I am reading between the lines and you are a bunch of know-it-alls.

I.A.C.'s - idiot ass clowns

who double as trolls...
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2005, 05:21:58 PM »
the article you posted contradicts your own statement.

if @ $99 the GC losses were temporarily in single digits ($1-$9) then it was also profitable at $150.  Can you not do math?  Don't back peddle.

Face the facts: the Gamecube hardware has been profitable for Nintendo.  Rev B. removed serial port 1 and around that time is when they dropped to $150.  Rev C. also removed the progressive scan capability and that was done shortly after the $99 price drop.

Going by Japan's latest open pricing policy, one can deduct that the GC cost about $75-$85 to produce.  Throw in a game that cost <$10 to produce as a bundle and even if profits are only $5 per bundle, it moves inventory and spurs sales of future/concurrent additional software sales...which we all agree is where the meat of the profits comes from.
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2005, 05:29:58 PM »
@koaftder

If I was a low-level file system/ operation system coder, I would have.

I'm just a Windows .NET coder.
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2005, 11:48:40 AM »
Quote

Waccoon wrote:
Quote
In late 2003/early 2004, they got rid of the progressive scan component and the gc went to profitability again from losing about $7-$8 for a couple of months.

Source?

Quote
So you are all ass-clowns as the GC has been profitable for 95+% of it's existence. And that's the real point - isn't it?

The point is you still haven't provided a source, and probably never will when you can just call everyone ass-clowns, instead.


Are you ignorant?  I have 2 gamecubes, a Rev A and a Rev C.  I can email you pictures of the both, one with the ports and one without.  You can jump into any GC forum or faq page and get this information.  Even the hardware faq at www.gamefaqs.com will tell you about the differnt Gamecubes.  Look at www.qoobchip.com click the 'manuals' link and you will see pics of the Rev A/B board and the Rev C. board.

Quote
Quote
And if you really do the numbers...

Based on what?

based on the new pricing policy about to go in effect in Japan where the GC is sold at cost, with no MSRP.

Quote
Quote

I.A.C.'s - idiot ass clowns

who double as trolls...

Enough with the name calling.  If you're so damn smart, tell me how much money Nintendo spends manufacturing each Gamecube.


When you tell me your manufacturing quote, don't forget to include packaging and shipping costs.  Obviously, Gamecubes don't jump into pretty boxes or swim across the ocean from China all by themselves.

Also, note that Nintendo doesn't sell Gamecubes for $100.  The stores do.  Tell me how much money the stores pay, and use that value to determine Nintendo's profit per hardware unit.

You, ah, DO have that information, don't you?


funny how I'm the only one that has to provide sources.  You try to find the information since you act like what you believe it the absolute truth.

I just told you there is going to be no MSRP in Japan so you may see the units sell ~$80 to spur sales.  Why would a store sell it for less than they paid for it?  Stop being so trollish.  I will provide a link to the 'no MSRP' policy later when I get home from work as I'm behind a firewall right now.

And in the end, here's the whole point:

What is so hard to understand about economics?
Over time, espcecially after MILLIONS of units sold, things get ALOT cheaper.

It happens in Intel/AMD land, why not IBM/Motorola land?  The PPC cpu's are not expensive just because Eyetech wants to rape you of your wallet.  Get your heads out of the Amiga waste bucket and smell the fresh air.  PPC cpu's have been in millions of Macs, Gamecubes and embedded devices.

You can look up on Gamespot.com or gamesindustry.biz on how MS is only losing $75 initially on the 360.  So by typical Amigan troll math, the custom developed brand spanking new 3.2GHz triple-core PPC cpu must cost $1500 and the rest of the system must cost -$1125.  Gee if they sold it without a cpu, MS could clear out the US national debt...

And there is no such thing as guarranteed sales.  There are, however, pricing policy adjustments AFTER x amount of units have shipped.
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2005, 12:20:45 PM »
http://www.gonein60fps.net/thescreenshot/2005_01_01_archive.shtml

So if they Cubes hit the selves after May 04 in the US.  When do you think they were produced?  And you know they were on the shelves in Japan well before that.

Now, if you bought a GC today and wanted Progressive scan output.  You have to contact Nintendo and ship them your GC and they'll send you a Rev B. for a $50 charge + shipping.  Coincidence?

http://www.qoobchip.com/images/diagrams/qoob_pro_gc_ab.jpg

see the connector at the top middle?  That's the DV out.  Notice serial port 1 board connection on the board in the upper left corner next to the analog A/V connector
In this version, there is also a transformer that you have to be careful with when removing the board.

http://www.qoobchip.com/images/diagrams/qoob_pro_gc_c.jpg

here is the Rev C.  NOTICE, no serial port 1 connector on the board, the transformer in now part of the board and the analog A/V connector was moved to where the DV connector was.

Anymore stupid questions?

expected losses on initial 360 and PS3: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=9838
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2005, 11:46:55 AM »
I don't give a rat's ass that MACs won't be PPC anymore.
When a Mac doesn't get any cheaper when it goes Intel then maybe you'll finally realize what you are paying for.

You ask me to provide store profits.  You want them, you provide them.  Same goes for manufacturing costs.  You have given me nothing that provides me with proof that selling GC hardware makes Nintendo lose money.  Adolescent provided an article blantantly telling you the system was costing Nintendo $100-108 just before the move to $99 which was just before they lowered their manufacturing costs again by going to rev C.  I knew this already because I read that same article a couple of years ago on another site...but didn't have a link.  By the way - thanks, adolescent, for the link.

If you need more proof than that, start by proving you aren't an ignorant troll because all you are doing is choosing to ignore facts.

So let me figure out your Amigan troll math again.  You are saying by eliminating components from a manufacturing process, Nintendo actually increased their manufacturing costs?  That's as brilliant as Eyetech's fix of the bugs in the A1 where the workaround is for the consumer to spend more money on an extra PCI card(s) for a feature(s) that you've already paid for on the motherboard.

Infact if Eyetech removed those buggy components, they would charge you extra for not having them on the motherboard.  That's the sad logic of you and them.  That's why the Amiga will stay DEAD.

Now I've also stated that Sony is making a profit selling the slimline PS2.  Would you care for me to provide links?  Why it so hard to believe selling consoles can be profitable?  Want to know why Sega stopped selling consoles?  Because they sold the Dreamcast at a loss and everybody and their grandmother pirated games to they had no way to make any substantial profit.  That was Sega, that will never be Nintendo...or Sony...and now it won't be Microsoft either eventually.

Just because zealots here are willing to pay ~$900 for 6 year old technology...heck how much do people buy A1200's here?  It's worth about <$5 in real world value today.  Give me a break.

I've sold around 10 CD32 titles on EBAY over the last couple of months.  I've charged $5 shipping and started the bidding at $0.01...  One did sell at that price and it didn't bother me one bit.  I shipped it.  Those games are 12 years old and worthless to me.  Just as an A1200 is worthless to me.  Heck, when I dig out my CD32 that will go on Ebay as well with an opening bid of $0.01 with the appropriate shipping costs.  This community pays too much money for worthless junk.

Don't hate because other hardware manufacturers can sell a QUALITY product at an AFFORDABLE price.

In the end - what does anyone care what it costs to manufacture product X from company Y as long as they are happy paying pice Z?  Just because people are dumb enough to pay $50 or more for a 15 year old A1200 or whatever doesn't mean a Gamecube should cost hundreds of dollars.  I told you - get your head out of the Amiga waste bucket.
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2005, 01:05:10 PM »
As am I.  However the original claim was that all consoles lose money.  There has been no proof to that but proof to the contrary.

What does this have to do with the Amiga market?
Read the last 8 pages of my "potential PPC Amiga real cheap" thread and you will see exactly where all this hostility comes from.
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2005, 03:47:31 PM »
@Waccoon

So just because adolescent posted a like that says the gamecube was profitable through Sept 2003 and cost UNDER $109 to manufacture and I didn't, then I didn't prove it to you.  He did.  The fact that you insist on me doing it is what makes you a troll as you keep repeating your statements without any obvious comprehension of my replies or the facts presented to you.

I can post articles about when Nintendo moved to the $149.99 price point they were about breaking even where as they were profitting at launch.  Then in those same articles they mention moving production to China.  Adolescen't post is some time after that when they were already producing in China and that's when the costs were at the sub $110 level already and they are also at Rev B at this point.

I've specifically outlined to you the differences in the Rev C board and given you an accurate timescale of when it was produced.  I've conceded that the Gamecube wasn't profitable for about 2-5 months between the price drop to $99 and the production of the Rec C board.

You are just a troll as your last couple of posts are mirror images and I'm sure you will again state I've proven nothing to you.  You take comments I make as an excuse to change the subject.

Yes, I do care how much I pay for ANY product, the less I pay the better and it better be worth the money.

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000407062281

Quote
Update: it’s also important to remember that Nintendo doesn’t sell its consoles at a loss. If a $99 Revolution is a real possibility, we can expect the system to be only a fraction as powerful as the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360.


Have a nice day.  :-P
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2005, 09:38:36 PM »
Where are the hard facts that Nintendo loses money selling consoles?  2 link from established news sites have shown that Ninendo makes money selling consoles.

http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php
Quote
In the final corner, Nintendo has it much better. When the system wars began, Nintendo GameCube was actually making money for each system sold, as Nintendo didn’t bother with all the extra non-gaming functions of its competitors, like DVD movie playback. The system was still making Nintendo money at $150, and it wasn’t until its $99 price tag that it was estimated Nintendo was losing money – but only in the single digits.


http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000407062281
Quote
Update: it’s also important to remember that Nintendo doesn’t sell its consoles at a loss. If a $99 Revolution is a real possibility, we can expect the system to be only a fraction as powerful as the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360.


Short of an accounting statement from Nintendo, what more proof do you need?  This is common industry knowledge.  I shouldn't even have to be defending this because it's so well-known that Nintendo has always profitted from console sales.

http://www.gamepro.com/nintendo/gamecube/games/news/22820.shtml

http://www.red-mercury.com/mmceo/mmceo05_20_2002.html

the link if you want to BUY a progressive scan enabled gamecube if yours was bought on or after May 2004: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/nintendogamecube/component_faq.jsp

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/30/nintendo_q2_results/
Quote
A surge in sales of its GameCube console pushed Nintendo's second-quarter income almost 100 per cent over the same period last year.

For the three months to 30 June 2004, Nintendo achieved a net income of ¥22.6bn ($202m), 96.5 per cent up on Q2 2003's ¥11.5bn ($103m).

Driving the gain was a 712.5 per cent increase in unit shipments, from 80,000 in Q2 2003 to 650,000 this past quarter.


log:
Oct 2003 - Nintendo production had been stopped due to low demand so a $99 is put into place. SUPRISE - sales jump higher than expcected.
Jan 2004 - Rev C Gamecubes are manufactured to meet demand.
May 2004 - Shipments hit the US market
Jun 2004 - 650,000 units shipped last quater and profits double for Nintendo

remember if they are on a store shelf, the manufacturer has already been PAID.

I can always get a life, can trolls EVER stop being trolls?
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2005, 01:24:43 AM »
@koaftder

Marketing costs are separate and effect every company's bottom line.  Profits from one product can be subsidized to promote a less profitable one so it's not something calculated simply and don't figure directly into manufacturing costs(which can be easily calculated).  It's simply manufacturing costs we are arguing.

Also an MSRP is not always ~ twice the actual costs.  It varies across different industries.  Infact, because they expect to sell software and a memory card and maybe a controller with every console sold, I would say that the GC's MSRP is only 10-20% higher than the actual cost to manufacture.

Now from a software point of view, it costs total about $2 to burn the disc and create the packaging per unit assuming for example 100,000 units.  Now development costs for the average GC/PSP/PS2 title are ~$800,000 per title ( http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchnews.asp?newsid=148719 ).  So if they make 100,000 copies and sell them all, then it only cost them $10 a title.  But if it sells one million copies, then the costs are only $2.80 per title.

After about 400,000 copies are sold and a timeline is met, a game goes "Player's Choice" and sells for 20-30 bucks.  They are still making a good profit.  I would say the MSRP of $50 means the store paid probably half that, maybe a bit more.  Either way, there is profit to be made on software.
As far as 3rd party software goes, platform holders probably make about $5 a title per copy sold.

Now everybody wants to talk about the real profits being in software...well if Nintendo only makes $5 per copy, per title on 3rd party software and they only release ~4 first party console games a year with a profit of ~$17 you can begin to see how selling all those gamecubes in April-June of 2004 made them double their profits over the same quarter of the previous year.  Take into account that rarely do games sell over 400,000 copies on the GC (except 1st party games)...you begin to see why making a profit on hardware is also part of their big picture.

Quote
Now if everybody who submitted a comment to this thread just boned up on their c/c++ we could port mono over to AROS and expand the software library for the platform to some insaine level.


Yes, exactly why I started the "potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP" thread.  To move the platform forward as a whole.  Instead of support, my idea was picked about for trolling's sake.  If you read through the whole thing, I learn some things along the way but also learn who the trolls were and who actually had "constructive" critisism.  Alot of the original troll arguments against it, I dissipated much later on in the thread as the Gamecube modder/homebrew developer community made some break-thrus and an excellent MOD chip (www.qoobchip.com) was released...and is now installed in my Rev C. Gamecube (vs. my much more valuable Rev A.).

Quite a read for anyone here who wonders where the hostility toward adolescent and Waccoon comes from.  Read it all and make up your own mind.
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2005, 05:30:32 PM »
@koaftder

Well AROS's mission statement is to be %100 3.1 compatible with "some" updates/modernization.

@Waccoon

you just keep proving why you are a troll
and yes, I have no interest in Linux, you are correct but if all I had to do to run an alternate OS on the GC was install a $50 mod chip that takes 10 minutes to install, I think the Amiga community has gone through alot more hassel to upgrade their machines and still be nowhere near the power of a Gamecube.  Hence, my installing Linux was an excersise in installing a OS that runs on the Gamecube and I have succeeded and proved a point.

If Linux can be compiled and run on the GC and access a network file system and can read DVD R/RW discs, why can't AROS or an AOS4 version run off it.  Alot of what the GC is critisized for lacking, Revolution has, for instance USB 2.0 ports.

Now AOS4 could be written to run off of the GC but check if it's running on Revolution hardware and take advantage of that.  In my "PPC Amiga..." thread I predicted that a game for the GC would run enhanced on Revolution...if you read cube.ign.com/mail the editor there says this is a possibility with Zelda.  I predicted this in like March.  The Zelda screen shots (newest ones anyway) are in a resolution much higher than 640x480...interesting...

Infact, as Revolution is just an "upgraded" Gamecube, it's possible that it's emulation of GC software may allow for graphical enhancements like the PS1 emulators and even eliminate framerate drops in old GC titles like Madden football.

Revolution could be the G5 Amiga hardware platform everybody wants...and at $199, I'm sold.
One of the spec sheets I've read on the GC says that it can produce a 720p display, however as that resolution is impractial for GC games but great for a desktop.  A VGA cable is available and even makeable if you have a Rev A/B gamecube.  I can't imagine Revolution being less capable as Nintendo has stated that you'll be able to plug it into a computer monitor.

Developers comment on Revolutions's controller:
http://cube.ign.com/articles/660/660408p1.html
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2005, 11:14:36 PM »
yes, I mean Nintendo will let you trade it in for a fee if you bought a Rev C...

...but pop off the Serial Port 1 Adapter cover and see if the connector is still there...I have a cover for Serial Port 1 on my Rev C but no actual port there when I remove it.  The Serial ports are on either side of the GC, the parralel port is in another corner incase you got confused.

Yes my modchip is installed.  It's the qoob PRO chip with 2MB of flashram that is flashed via USB from my PC.  On the flashram I have the qoob bios 1.3c, an mp3 player and GC-Linux 2.6.1, I can select to load the mp3 player or Linux from the bios's menu or go to the original Gamecube boot.

A ported "Kickstart" would easily fit on there...one that would boot the OS from DVD or network file system...

I ordered the chip and case-MOD bundle (to fit full size DVDs) for a total of $98 ($74.99 + s/h+duty) from www.modchipworld.com that price includes shipping and an import duty took about a week to get it.  The qoob Pro by itself is $49.99
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2005, 05:24:11 PM »
Quote

koaftder wrote:
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
I ordered the chip and case-MOD bundle (to fit full size DVDs) for a total of $98 ($74.99 + s/h+duty) from www.modchipworld.com that price includes shipping and an import duty took about a week to get it.  The qoob Pro by itself is $49.99


Cool, where can i get one? What do i have to do to install it? I'll demonstrate L4 kernel running on x86, MACppc and GC .


uh, didn't I just tell you?
installation instructions are on www.qoobchip.com

If you don't get the case mod, you'll have to get 3" rewriteable DVD's or leave the top of the case off and use 5" dvd's.

check:
www.gc-linux.org
www.gcdev.com
http://modthatcube.pxn-os.com/main.htm

for everything you need to know

what's the L4 kernal?
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2005, 12:24:08 PM »
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12554

Some much for %100 backward compatability.
Sad when the PS2 isn't even backwards compatible with itself, how can you expect the PS3 to be.

As for 360, it just won't have the muscle to "emulate" all the regular XBOX titles.  Part of there "compatibility" comes from downloading recompiled .xbe files from what I hear.  Media will still come from the original XBOX game like the Amiga PPC Quake ports but the executable will come from harddrive as it seems the harddrive is a requirement for backwards compatibility.

As for the GC, since it's escentially an upgraded Gamecube, I'm still holding to my theory that certain future Gamecube titles will be "aware" of the fact that they are running on Revolution hardware and run "enhanced".  Be it higher polygons or using the Rev controller or more on-screen enemies or possibly running at 720p (if Nintendo ever decides to support HD)...
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #29 from previous page: October 27, 2005, 03:19:15 PM »
No, I play it better with JNES on my PC. :P
Not to mention ZSNES and Project64... Dolwin is coming along...

Then there's ePSXe and WinUAE and MAME, Stella, Gens...

ps,

What's the L4 kernel?