FPGA Amiga

[Niding]

the same and it is pointed out like a broken record that. WHO will do the programming?   just think of it: most sources of software is lost anyway.  this means software needs to be written from scratch.   will this happen? most likly not..

so why even bother adding new stuff instead of perserving what we got?

There are plenty of options for pure legacy hardware, like Whicher 500, ACA, TerribleFire, Ebay/AmiBay hardware etc. If thats your cup of tea, look in that direction.

Why should Apollo Core do the same? Given the relative decent backward compability (and gradually improving), you can even use Apollo and ignore the new features.
If they lack features, then you have the other alternatives.

Britelite has repeatedly given his reservations with the direction of the Apollo Core, but he isnt rejecting it in a pissed manner. His main concern is the possibility that a coder (demoscene or otherwise) develop keeping the legacy timings as the foundation, but the new features MIGHT have unforseen consequences.
Thats a fair critique/concern with regards to the Apollo Core. Wether or not its a valid concern as the compability increases, thats for the developers to decide. People release more and more tests of old demos that work just fine on the 2.7 and 3 Beta cores, showing quite decent improvements compared to 6-8 months back when Kioa was a slideshow with graphical bugs. Now it runs smoothly.

Work in progress and all that.

[Niding]

@Britelite

Skip has been posting alot of demos on his Vimeo channel. Not sure if you can be bothered to watch any of them, but linking his page all the same if you are intrested in seeing how the Vampire executes the demos;

https://vimeo.com/user1803902

With regards to the AMMX and other stuff; even if thats included, does that matter to YOU as long as it doesnt affect your own productions?

[Niding]

Nope, I couldn't care less for these features. I'm maybe more annoyed by people complaining about (demo)coders not wanting to make use of them

Hehe, that reminds me about your comments on ADA Unterground towards people posting the Revision 201x threads, pushing your coders to make entertaining productions, while doing nothing themselves.

That aside; you shouldnt really attribute to the Apollo/Vampire project what some daydreamers say or think. Its not Gunnars fault that some expect you or others to press ESC and suddenly a full megademo magically appears.

Im not going to pretend Im not enjoying watching demos, even tho Im not part of that scene. And if Im not mistaken, Im not really the intended audience of demos, atleast judging by the comments by some in the documentary "The Art Of The Algorithms".

Digital art is art, and I enjoy it even tho I dont "paint"

[Niding]

Well, let's just say that Gunnar is definitely not making attracting developers to the Vampire/Apollo any easier either

Well, some people speak machinecode better than human, so I cant really comment on that

[Niding]

... But when I think about it;

You dont like to be told to code a demo, or what platform you use. And you have said that it takes away some of your intrest/joy of coding.

Maybe a similar reactionpattern can be attributed to a team like Apollo, that has spent xx hours producing this product, only to have xyz people tell them its not good enough etc.

Not saying thats you, just saying that a short temper comes easier if you feel a sense of pride in your work.

I know I can get testy in similar situations.

[Niding]

I guess I havent paid close enough attention, or the discussions have gone on thru other channels/meets;

But ignore the fact that I probably doesnt know enough about 680x0 hardware and assembly coding to understand your explainations;

What are the limitations or design directions you would want Apollo to embrace?

I get the whole "I want to code for Apollo like I code for my legacy hardware, and get the same/expected output",  but beyond that, I have a hard time to pinpoint your "requirements".

Again, you do it as a hobby, so you are not required to "explain yourself", but Im merely curious.
I enjoy the Vampire from a end user point of view. I dont develop on any platform, and computers are merely tools for me. 90% of my time is spent in office products or video rendering, while the remainder is used enjoying digital art OR just using it as a information channel.
So Im not exposed to effects of the design decisions like a developer would be.

[Niding]

Thanks for your reply!

Again, as a enduser, I actually enjoy the "bells and whistles", but we obviously have different uses for hardware, and the perspective decides how we view it.

Thanks for all the beautiful demos you have developed over the years

[Niding]

Right way for who?

Again; depends on what you want from the hardware.

[Niding]

Well, as has been said many times already;

The Core is *Work in progress*, and what doesnt work now, might work down the road.

Britelites approach to his critizism/comments about the Core is much more useful than most;
It highlights in a calm and objective way what he personally find lacking/problematic, without feeling the need to attibute a malignant effect to it.

Lacking documentation? Sure, but considering its work in progress, AND there are limited number of developers available to check all the boxes in the process.
Develop the core or write long documentations/guides? Finding time to it all at the same time is just not possible.

Ive been a workerdrone in a company for years, and I was somewhat annoyed when managers didnt bother to produce decent documentation for the processes we had internally. Now Im one of the managers myself, and have to execute my work in addition to keep up with the paperwork/documentation, and I understand how hard it is to actually find time do it all. And Ive noticed that I focus on executing work instead of getting all the documentation fully complete.