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Author Topic: To Vampire or not  (Read 21720 times)

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Offline Niding

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Re: To Vampire or not
« on: June 10, 2017, 08:50:18 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;826907
That is particularly inane, even from an Amiga fanatic.
The cpu has been given the designation 68080, but doesn't have features that the '040 and '060 have standard.
Speed without compatibility?
Without a feature I can tack on to an '020 or '030 system easily?

Its remarkably underwhelming.


I think the word you are looking for is" Work in Progress". I do wonder if all the negativity in general is why most developers still active on the amiga scene refrain from posting on forums.

Niding/Overflow
 

Offline Niding

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Re: To Vampire or not
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2017, 11:00:37 PM »
I suggest you join Apollo-Team IRC channel and ask questions there;

irc.freenode.org

Port; 6667

#apollo-team

Or webbased IRC

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=apollo-team

OR ask on their forums;

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php

http://forum.apollo-accelerators.com/
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 11:04:12 PM by Niding »
 

Offline Niding

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Re: To Vampire or not
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2017, 11:55:56 AM »
Based on whats been said on IRC I get the impression that Gunnar sticks to his/their own priorities based on internal roadmap.
He has asked for FPU code, something that will push the limits, and noone has stepped up to make a case why he/they should prioritise FPU over other things they are working on. The list of things to do is long, and there has to be priorities made.
The conclusion seems to be; well, if noone can be bothered to work with them on FPU code, then its not really that important to warrant pushing it futher up on the roadmap.

Like Video+Audio thru HDMI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwbIdKz0AoY&t=40s
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 11:59:04 AM by Niding »
 

Offline Niding

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Re: To Vampire or not
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2017, 09:54:19 AM »
Comment on youtube by Simo;

Quote
Goal is have a standalone and to work it needs AGA+PAULA. That is why AGA+PAULA (via HDMI) are at high priority after CPU (integer) development. Once they have been implemented, this SAGA part becomes open-source and we can use upcoming standalone to bring-up FPU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P63RiFz4brQ&t=0s

Wether or not the FPU is in working condition, but doesnt fit the FPGA is a moot point for me.
I think the developers knows best (better than most of us anyhow) what fits the roadmap AND the FPGA itself as it is. What Is needed first etc.

Sounds like the FPU is pushed back to the standalone, which sounds reasonable enough for me.

Others might think differently, and thats fine too.

Iggy;

With regards to modeling programs, there is always Cinema4d;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoJ-RsWLd2g

This is a very old Vampire Core demostration, but it atleast shows the potential, even without FPU. The question is obviously; could a updated version taking advantage of all the features of Vampire/Apollo have a even higher performance, or would most of it hinge on FPU. I dont even know, as Im not a coder.
Cinema4d is owned by AEON if memory serves me right, so that is something for Trevor/Matthew to consider...
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 10:05:53 AM by Niding »
 

Offline Niding

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Re: To Vampire or not
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2017, 10:41:35 AM »
Quote from: kolla;827098
Though the marketing said something else, and he had no shame in gloating about how amazingly fast it was back then.



Yes, there are incompatibilities, and it is not just the FPU. As time goes on, and there are more and more users, more and more incompatibility issues will appear. I do wonder how "the team" will deal with this, as Gunnar is all about moving forward and leaving whatever compatibility issues behind, for the sake of performance.

It is funny and ironic how the OS3.x community now may get its own equivalent to the A1222 Tabor. :laughing:



The Apollo Core is all about Gunnar - it's frustratingly enough his character and personal attitudes that shape the development of the CPU core that is touted to be "the future" of the Amiga. What would be your estimation regarding the "bus factor" of the Apollo Core project?


At the end of the day, Gunnar is the lead developer, so its hardly suprising his philosophy is the one that sets the direction of the project. I dont see a problem with that. If its not your cup of tea at the moment, then dont buy into it. If it later on satisfies the requirements you have for usage, then great.

If not, you have your legacy hardware OR other projects like Jens/Individual Computers, Terrible Fire, and others.
 

Offline Niding

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Re: To Vampire or not
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2017, 09:10:17 AM »
Gunnar has made several requests for people to assist with the FPU on Apollo forum, but those calls has always been left unanswered.

That doesnt invalidate your desire to have FPU, but no response doesnt encourage the them to change their priorities. Long to-do list and limited resorces.
 

Offline Niding

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Re: To Vampire or not
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2017, 07:36:22 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;827273
Ridiculous excuse. We are constantly told what it will do in the future, but "don't buy it for that".



Gunnar has claimed it is for the most part done.
Again, thing claim is an excuse.



+1

 As in, YES, it DOES make a big difference, guys.


I wouldnt call it an excuse when Gunnar doesnt prioritise it, and ask people to basically convince him otherwise thru code and not just generic demands.
THAT said, the benchmarks and commentary made in that blog is very intresting and convincing.
 

Offline Niding

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Re: To Vampire or not
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2017, 08:16:47 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;827278
Yes it is BOTH, and as a "drama queen", I haven't bought one yet.
Further, while you and Niding my both be unapologetic fanboys, its pretty easy to poke holes in your statements.

Gunnar didn't need other programmers or code to test an fpu, there are plenty of available packages that use floating point routines already in existence.

If he's having trouble getting it done, just admit it.
Excuses about priorities or statements about the current purchasers are merely obfuscation.

And, as Niding admitted, its obviously a useful feature, as even with its higher clock speed, a Vampire takes MUCH longer to perform fpu commands via emulation.

As an enduser with virtually no coding skills, and absolutely no developer skill/expirience I have no idea what Gunnars request entails. He did point out that it would require committing to significant time offered and asm.
Noone has taken him up on it.
Im not going to pretend I know what he needs from the coder, do you?

Either way, with noone stepping up, they seem intent on following their own priorities, which I see no need to be negative about, since I contribute absolutly zero to the work, which I think is the case for the majority of us.

Why you feel inclined to call me a fanboi just cause I accept they follow their own internal map is beyond me.
I could rant and rave about xyz not being done yet, but it wont make development process go any faster, and it just demoralizes the team. They are actually humans afterall.