A-EON Technology Acquires Personal Paint

[Niding]

He wrote that he asked but got harsh reactions. The people of a certain camp are obviously measuring different depending on where you are from. But that is not really new.

If you react to harsh reactions everytime you want to get things done, you will be paralyzed. Thats said; Pascal is very active and doing alot of good work. I think its better to focus on the good aspects of developments on the different platforms, instead of trying to villify the "others".
You say "camps", but from where Im sitting, every socalled "camp" got their "fundamentalists" that see no flaws in their design or arguments.

"AOS supporters" are no better or worse in that respect.

People have commented up thru the years about lack of software, hardware and developments/updates. I think it has been shown so far that hard cash has helped accelerate the developments on all those aspects. Ill grant you that the hardware platform is quite/very expensive, but for those that doesnt want to go that route, there is emulation or other platforms.

I see people say Personal Paint is old and worthless, but still they are up in arms about its removal. Everything has to be free it seems. No wonder developers left/are leaving.

@wawzon "there is no user base to sustain commercial developments. i wonder what you are expecting the users to do, if you get rid of this what you call psyche and start charge users for what has previously been available for free.."

Then you could flip it around; maybe there are no userbase because there have been no updates or developments for decades? Maybe the reason for this is the prevailent attitude that everything have to be free shunning away the developers? The "free lunch" approach has been attempted for decades and failed, so I dont see the big problem with letting AeonKit try their approach.
Looking at Aminet and OSdepot; there are so many programs freely available I dont really understand why people bounces off the walls for the removal of a few; with the intent to update and develop them.

[Niding]

Just to copy what Severin said on AW.net

That is not a problem, it is the copyright owners choice. Name any other business that would not take down a 'free' product they own from a third party website to host it on their own site, still for free and generate more site hits? Most would take down the old version and lose it so people have to buy the latest version. A-EON is a business not a hobby, treat them as such.

EDIT;

And if it was Greeed that drove Trevor, then he would put his money elsewhere. I think its genuine intrest in the Amiga platform, be it Classic or xyz nextgen spinoff. Id say he would get a much better return on his money putting them in pretty much any other buissniss

I hope they succeed striking a good balance between money in and out. Money IS needed for future and ACCELERATED development, be it for NG and Classic hardware/software.

[Niding]

Bingo. This summarizes my sentiments exactly.

While not fitting the legal definition, PPaint 7.1 has effectively been considered PD for almost two decades.  To pull something that old from the community archives - even if it's made available elsewhere - is troubling. Are any other Aminet staples at risk of the same fate in the future?

Just hypotetically; if a few other programs are taken out of Aminet to be updated; whats the problem with that?

If something have been derelict for decades the socalled "community" have either;

1) Already got it on floppies/harddrives
2) Never had any use for it in the first place since they didnt download it x years ago

If the only "cost" is the removal of a "dead" program to get a updated program with future developments on the horizon; im all for it.

[Niding]

Yeah, it wouldn't be that big problem if it'd go that way. And maybe also a readme to Aminet explaining where you can get it. I'd be OK for me.

BUT, currently it seems that it won't be available that easily. It hasn't been said it'll be on their web site, it's been said to be on their "servers", which currently looks like that it means it'll be available only through their Amistore software.

It gives a lot of trouble, for example:
1) Amistore application is currently only available for OS4. 68k version is coming some day, but currently you need OS4 to get the software.
2) You need network connection and beefy enough Amiga to run Amistore. You can't get the software directly with Windows, Linux or Mac (to transfer it with other means to Amiga) unless running it on emulation and that might be a bit too big hassle for many users just wanting the old free PPaint to their old Amiga.
3) You probably need to register and take other actions before getting the software you used to have easily on Aminet.

Thats indeed a concern. When I asked about the AmigaStore running on Classical hardware, Matthew mentioned it was on a virtual crawl even on his 060 accelerated machine. He did mention that he was thinking/planning a more suitable version, tho I think most of us got 030s?

That said; that can be circumvated by using emulators, running AmigaStore from a PC/UAE...?

[Niding]

I do see your point, but I do think productivity software is a bit different.

As far as whoever submitted it; if Andy, zzd10h, Lyle or whoever made a piece of software they originally released on Aminet or allowed to be submitted there, we should be thankful they did so in the first place.

If they at a later point decides they want to make a updated version, and in the process make revenue off their work; I defintly dont see the problem with that.
With PP the rights where bought, but other than that, same applies.

[Niding]

Well, they are planning to update/develop the program futher, tho I dont expect that to resonate.

And again, its been available for aaaaaages, so anyone even remotely intrested in the program either already have it installed or got a file lying around somewhere.

[Niding]

Well, I have a hard time to villify someone that takes the time to develop software (or in this case update), make it freely available for x years, and then removes it later on.
You make aminet sound like a eternal contract where you sign away the rights to your software.

As I said on AW.net;

So what entitles us to free stuff all the time?
I dont MIND getting free stuff, hell, I even appriciate it. But I dont feel entitled to it either.

[Niding]

Again; what entitles us to free stuff all the time.

[Niding]

I presume you've bought this and other packages from AmiStore yourself?

Anyways, one should not forget the super important role of PD in the history of the Amiga. It is freeware that has kept the flame burning for years and years, not commercial software packages. No one is entitled to free software, but the norm on the Amiga has been to make things for fun, challenge and coolness, not cashing in. I'm talking about the last 10-15 years here of course. Aminet has been THE port of call for enthusiasts, newbies etc, and the unwritten rule is that what goes on Aminet stays on Aminet.

Ive bought software and hardware from AmigaKit and other vendors this year, and kitted out my A1200. Gotten AO4 Classic too etc.

That said; I dont do painting, so for me personally I dont need Personal Paint for anything.
Just because I support what AeonKit is trying to do overall, doesnt mean I intend on throwing money at them blindly. I buy what I want/have any use for.
I do already have Personal Paint on the harddrive tho.

As for Aminet; yes I agree its a wonderful resource, but I cant see why vendors and developers should be villified because of endusers misconseptions.

[Niding]

Did anyone else notice this part buried inside the EULA:

"Publication or distribution of any part of this archive without the
prior written license from Cloanto constitutes acceptance of a licensing
contract and fee to be determined by Cloanto, at a cost in no case lower
than EUR 10000.00, payable to Cloanto immediately upon publication or
distribution."

This demonstrates the likely reason it was released in the first place: hoping that someone would mirror the file for the benefit of the community, then they could threaten to sue them for millions of euros to force an out-of-court settlement, just like eg. the MPAA do. Even though EULAs in general, and completely ridiculous and unfair clauses like this one in particular, have no legal force. It really is a good example of Cloanto's philosophy of screwing the community.

Screwing the community? What are you on about? Ive had Amiga Forever for many years and actually find their product easy to use and enjoyable. They have never charged me for anything I didnt order, so I for one do not feel "screwed".
I do realise that the package they sell/deliver can be assembled by myself for the most part, but for some the few euros they ask for a "one click for complete solution" is WELL worth it.

So, unless you have any spesific cases where Clantao have gone out of their ways to hammer a poor unsuspecting soul into the ground on legality, you should maybe rethink your accusations.

All that aside; a COMMERCIAL entity do have to protect their investment with legal mumbo jumbo. Considering the sentiment of some in this "community" (and Im sure that holds true outside too), everything should be free (and if not; pirated). Its no wonder developers/software houses got an army of lawyers.

I pay Spotify 99 nkr a month for premium music access, and havent given it a second thought. I love the seamless access to music anywhere.
Same goes for AF emulation package, and thats a one time investment.

[Niding]

Why the hell must some people turn every good thing that happens to this community into some sort of "proof" that something evil is in the works ...

Let's face it guys, Amiga will never get a comeback. At this rate we will never be a viable commercial platform again. DESPITE THAT some people are actually investing time and money, even though it's pretty damn likely they will never see that money again and could have spent that time more productively someplace else.

Amiga, in all flavours, have been redused to a hobby OS. Nothing more, nothing less. With that in mind it makes more sense that some people want to invest money into this project anyway. They do it for fun, they do it for love and not to make any serious money out of it.

SO BACK OFF! When something good happens to our small (but obviously enternally angry) camp we should celibrate, not attack at the smallest of details.

You don't like that Personal Paint has been removed from Aminet? HUH? If you so desperately want it, just google it or go to piratebay, wait for it to be available for free again or ... I don't know, BUY IT now when it's actually being developed again.

I swear, Trevor and the guys must be real masochists if they have to get this kind of beating every god damn time thye do anything good and still come back for seconds.

Sorry 'bout the rant. I just got pissed off.

+1

Download available and working now (albeit a bit slow download speed).

[Niding]

Recent events have shown that things can and do disappear from Aminet without warning...

Which is a problem how?
If the removal is done by the owner/developer of said program, its really none of our buissniss.

I dont mind getting stuff for free, but Im not entitled to it.

[Niding]

that is what you want. it is not what i want.

that said, i'd probably still buy one. :lol:

-- eliyahu

Indeed. Its defintly something I would buy ^^ (granted it was somewhat reasonably priced)

[Niding]

There is plenty of room for both. You should avoid mixing them up. Critique against trying to clean the freeware version off the internet is no the same as critique against the continued development of PPaint. In the same vein, praise for the continued development is not the same thing as praise for them asking for their files to be removed from Aminet.

So it is not very productive to think of A-EON/Cloanto as the worst thing that could happen to the Amiga, like some seem to do, and it is not very productive to tell the people who complain about the removal of the freeware version that they should shut up and stop complaining for reasons totally unrelated to the complaint.

+1

Pretty much my view too.

Personally I dont mind the removal, but I can see that its preferable to have availablity on that library.
But the logical leap people make between removal and malicious intent is not very productive. I see from other forums that those (like me) that support AOS development supposedly hates other platforms (like AROS and MorphOS). Nothing can be futher from the truth.
Every leap forward for any OS, be it AOS, AROS, MorphOS etc is a good one, and I bow to the efforts of the developers.

So I think the majority of posters here that can be seen defending AeonKit, doesnt do it over a fundamentalistic view of the OS's. 99% of the time I use Windows 7 anyhow, and the only Amiga related stuff I got is a pimped up A1200+various Workbench versions plus AOS 4 Classic in emulation.
I just get a bit baffled over the negativity when people try to develop something, be it hardware and software.

What YOU said and the tone you said it in is quite productive, like Matt H and biggun.
Reasonable and calm expression of the reservations you got without the "mandatory" indignation over the destruction of the community.

Its a bit like Pascal getting flak from some over his IndieGoGo shop. He works hard to CREATE, and ofcourse some are trying their best to drag his motivation thru the mud.

But I guess its easier to tear down than to create.