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Offline Rogue

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Re: OS4, When ?
« on: March 01, 2003, 11:30:20 AM »
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AmiGR wrote:
Well, it's from a show organising user group that
cancelled their show (WOA-SE) cause of the
aforementioned reason. It can't be totally plasmatic.


Please read the interview with Ben on that topic.
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Offline Rogue

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2003, 05:22:41 PM »
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JoannaK wrote:

Yep.. Hermans finally admitted that your OS4 developemt has striken the rocks and has been there for last 6 months or so (looks like either lack of funds or lack of tallent?).  Essentially everything Ben Yoris said a month earlier has been proven to be truth. IMHO you should publicly apologicie from him for callign him liar.


What Ben Yoris said was that it wouldn't be ready before the end of this year (2003), which was a call that he is not competent enough to make.

Moreover, he was telling stuff from an internal mailing list, even if it was true (which I am denying here).

If it proves to be the truth is going to be obvious only at the end of this year. Even you should recognize that "end of the year" means December, 31st, not March 1st, unless you are using a different calendar.

Ben only said that OS 4 development is slowed down. Your vivid imagination is adding pieces, but that isn't something new, seeing how much FUD you like to spread.

That "lack of talent" was a really uncalled-for insult. I really wonder how low you can get, and you always manage to surprise me in your arrogance. I don't know what problem you have with Ben Hermans, or with Amiga, or with me, but only little brain or high degree of alcoholic intoxication can justify an insult directed at 30+ developer, 70+ beta testers and a similar number of translators that work for very little money, a team that contains the some of the brightest heads in the Amiga developer community.


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Offline Rogue

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2003, 06:10:45 PM »
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ksk wrote:
@Rogue

The community is fed up with broken promises.
Also AmigaOS4 schedule has failed several times and people are very fed up with that too.


I am fed up with insults, lies, false rumours. Don't pretend that there is only one side that is always to take the blame.

My only promise so far has been that I, like everyone else in the team, am doing my best to get the job done. So far I consider myself, like everyone else in the team, in compliance with that promise.

If you think that this is easy for us, you are completely off the mark. We have to make sure that we can survive, and I'm sorry to say it but I, myself, come first, and the community second. I need to cope with my personal living, and my personal bills. The community is not going to pay them. Until such time, I can only try to do my best, but everything has limits.

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Also I am fed up with lies and tired of waiting. Please be open in the communication towards the community.


Are you implying that I am lying? You know that release dates are estimates. I invite you to look around in the IT business for release dates that have actually been kept.

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Deliver a beta/BETATESTER ASAP rather than forever trying reach perfection on one go...


Just for your info, there is a team of 70 beta testers already. Just because person X or person Y isn't part of it doesn't mean there isn't. We are not going to conduct a public beta test, if that is what you mean, and there will only be a final product. Just because there is a public MorphOS beta version doesn't dictate that we have to do the same. We won't.

As to "trying to reach perfection", we are trying to reach a certain degree of it, because otherwise certain people I know will start bitching again. It will be "oh, this is all they came up after over one year". All of us believe in that project, and when we finally get it out, we will be saying "this is our project, and yes we're proud of it".

I am sorry, I don't make up release dates. And the cold hard fact is that estimating release dates is more of a gamble than anything else, and most certainly so in the Amiga market, a market that is not able to sustain itself at the moment. The result is that we have to look for other sources of income. Yes, this does delay things. No, they never came to a complete halt because there is always at least one of the core team working full time on it.

Most of all it doesn't give anyone the right to proclaim that OS 4 will not be out this year. That is something that can only be said on December 31st, not a second earlier.

Most of all it doesn't give anyone the right to suggest that there is a bunch of idiots working on the project, like Joanna tried to make it appear.

Most of all it doesn't give certain people the right to suggest that another company would have done better. Chances are that another company would have contracted similar people. mostly because they are the best you can get on the Amiga market.

Now you know what I am fed up with.
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Offline Rogue

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2003, 11:17:44 AM »
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downix wrote:

Actually, you're assuming that release can be instaneously handled.  Once the final-release form of the OS is established, you've got packaging, distribution, documentation, and most of all PUBLISHING to accomplish.  It takes 2-3 weeks for open-source CVS'd roll-your-own projects to go from code-done to public dissemination.  


Are you kidding me? I've seen and lived through quite a number of commercial releases in the meantime, among these where Shogo, Heretic II, Freespace, SiN/Linux, Shogo/Linux, Shogo/Mac, and a few others. You don't need to tell me how long this takes, I know this pretty well.

OK, so let's correct my original statement: You cannot make this call before December 1st. Better? That still does not mean March 1st. OK?

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Realistically, one can take an estimation of progress based on work done to date and work remaining to be done.  Will it be accurate, no, but it's a guestimate.  Ben Yoris did such a guestimate, based on his own experience.  You're free to make your own, based on your experience.


Ben Yoris made a guestimate and posted this on a public forum, whereas he didn't have any rights to do so. I used to be a friend of his, but honestly he lacks the knowledge to make such a call.

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Myself, I'm awaiting AOS4's arrival, so we can show precisely why we have the superior product.  It's hard to compete with a ghost.


Wait until it is released, then we will compete.
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