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Author Topic: Natami started and stopped again  (Read 18933 times)

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Offline amigadave

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Re: Natami started and stopped again
« on: July 07, 2014, 06:12:59 AM »
Comparing Natami, or any FPGA Amiga clone, to the X1000 and AmigaOS4.1.6, or MorphOS3.6, or the latest version of any of the AROS forks, is about as useful as comparing the C64 to Windows 8 running on the latest i7 CPU.  Trying to convince the users of any of these hobby platforms that they are wasting their time and that the platform they have chosen to spend their money and time supporting, and that they enjoy using and maybe developing new or ported software for, is also a waste of time. can very often lead to conflicts in these forums, when one member insults the intelligence, or sanity for another's choice of hobby/retro platform.

It would be better to just stick to the thread topic and leave out comments that attack any other platform choices.  We have read those attacking comments hundreds of times over and over again anyway, so why bother repeating them again.  We all know that any of the currently available Amiga and Amiga inspired OSes and hardware that they run on are far removed from any mainstream platforms, but most of us use one or more of these Amiga and/or Amiga inspired platforms, because we like to use them.

Instead, I suggest that members choose to support the Amiga and Amiga inspired platforms of their choice(s) by pointing out the positive points for each of those platforms, but do it in appropriate threads, or in a way that ties such information to any thread they are posting the information into.

Just a suggestion on how to contribute in a positive way, instead of negative alternatives.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 06:15:18 AM by amigadave »
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Natami started and stopped again
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 08:16:34 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;768405
As for OS4, then I agree with you that the costs is too much.  I run it on a Pegasos II but your only option if you don't want second hand hardware seems to be the $3000 X1000 or various models of low performing SAM mobos.

Project Moana should have been a proper release from Hyperion years ago.

I agree totally, but ......................

I don't remember who started the work on project Moana.  Seems that I read it might have been the guys at ACube, or it might have been someone else, but I don't think it was Hyperion's developers.  Who ever it was, they got it to boot, but didn't go any further with driver development for Mac hardware.  I suppose you can ask the MorphOS Dev. Team about how hard it was (and still is) for them to write all the drivers to handle Mac hardware, as there is no documentation for any of the Mac hardware available freely, outside of Apple.

I agree that completing project Moana would have been great for AmigaOS4.x users.  I think it would have converted many more AmigaOS3.x users, if they had been able to purchase cheap but high performance used G4 Mac hardware to run AmigaOS4.x, and I don't really understand why Hyperion has not pursued this idea by dedicating some of their programming resources to complete a port of AmigaOS4.x to PPC Mac hardware, so they could increase the size of their user base.  Of course there are many Classic Amiga users who will never convert to any NG Amiga platform, but I think that there are many who watch what is going on with AmigaOS4.x that would try it out if it were available on $100 to $300 used hardware and the OS price were around $50 to $100 per license.

In my opinion, each day that Hyperion wastes in not porting AmigaOS4.x to some kind of cheaper hardware that most Classic Amiga users can afford, is another day where more users leave the Amiga community behind completely.  We were once a community of 10's of thousands, and now we are only a few thousand (I am counting all people in our combined community of Classic, OS4, MorphOS, Emulation, FPGA clones, & AROS), and if the decline in number of users is not reversed soon, we will only have a few hundred die hard users left in the near future.  Not that such a port of AmigaOS4.x to cheap Mac PPC hardware will make much of a difference, but it certainly won't hurt and it might slow the exodus of users who finally give up on anything Amiga related.

Some will say that if any Classic users wanted a NG Amiga system that runs on PPC Mac hardware, they would have already started using MorphOS.  That is true for some users, but unfortunately, there are a few users in the MorphOS community that have behaved in a way that has "turned off" some of the Classic Amiga users so much so, that no matter how good MorphOS becomes, they will never choose to use it as an alternative to Classic AmigaOS, but they might consider moving to AmigaOS4.x.  I say this from a perspective of a "die hard" MorphOS user and promoter.  But I also use and hope for the success of AmigaOS4.x, which is why I would wish for them to complete the Moana project and get some new users and interest.

It is a real shame that the Natami team fell apart after one or two of its members pissed off the man with the original idea, who has since gone into hiding and is now working alone on his ideas, probably to be released under a different name (if he is ever able to complete any of it).  The Natami project captured the imagination of a large segment of our community (including myself) and I think that it could have generated a large amount of enthusiasm and renewed programming interest on 68k Amiga.  Hopefully the Apollo boards will have a similar effect and besides being just FPGA accelerators, they will be expanded some time in the future, to include much of what the Natami had aimed for.
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Natami started and stopped again
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 07:43:11 PM »
Quote from: SamuraiCrow;768553
It was more than one or two.  I balked too when I found out the NatAmi MX might cost as much as a SAM.  That said, I've learned second-hand that Thomas Hirsch is still working on a new NatAmi.

About the Apollo accelerators, there's a locked thread about them on EAB.  Gunnar posted there that the accelerator boards will have FPGA usable HDMI and Ethernet ports on them.  The idea that some Amiga chipset core with graphics card features will use the HDMI port is very likely.

This is the first I have read about anyone with direct knowledge of what Thomas Hirsch is working on right now, so thanks for that bit of info.  I can understand how many people became worried about the cost of the NatAmi MX board, if it could not be cost reduced by increasing the volume of boards to be produced and it looked like it was going to cost as much as the SAM boards, but there were probably hundreds, if not thousands of users who would have gladly paid that price to get a working NatAmi MX system.  If some new design can incorporate all, or most of the features of the NatAmi MX board at a much cheaper price, and that is what Thomas Hirsch is working on, he will surely be able to sell many boards to all the former NatAmi hopefuls, if most or all of the features that were announced previously for the NatAmi are implemented.  The same should happen for the soon to be released Apollo accelerator boards, as there still seems to be strong interest in Amiga 68k.

It is too bad that the Apollo developers and Thomas Hirsch aren't working together any longer, as they could probably get things done faster if they were working on one project, instead of two different ones that appear to be very similar.

I am waiting to hear from Gunnar on the progress for the Apollo boards and I wonder how the production costs are going to be funded to get those boards manufactured and into the hands of us buyers.  Maybe a Kickstarter project would work?
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)