How many Amiga users are left?

[amigadave]

I know this question has been asked dozens of times and there is really no concrete way to get an absolute answer, but just for fun, let's see how many responses we can get and also get some discussion about how many Amiga users are still active in 2011.

Some users still think that there are thousands of people that still use an Amiga computer, or some form of Amiga experience on a regular basis.  Others, like me, only think that there are a few hundred Amiga users that actually boot up any kind of AmigaOS, or Amiga-Like OS at least once or twice a week and use it for anything.

To make the discussion more meaningful I will define some parameters for all of us to use, so we are talking about the same numbers of users and not confusing Apples with Oranges.  Here are the definitions of the various users for use in this Poll.

"Active Classic Amiga User" = Someone who boots up any model of Amiga computer that was manufactured by Commodore Business Machines between 1985 & 1994, at least once or twice a week and uses it for at least 15 to 30 minutes each boot up.

"Active Amiga-Like User" =  Someone who boots up one or more of any of the following operating systems and use it for at least 15 to 30 minutes once or twice each and every week.  AmigaOS1.x to 3.x, including running it via emulation on non-Amiga hardware, AmigaOS4.x, MorphOS1.x, or 2.x, any flavor of AROS.

"Amiga Lurker" = Someone who no longer uses any Amiga, or Amiga-Like system on a regular basis, but still shows an interest in Amiga news by visiting Amiga related sites at least once every 3 days/nights, and possibly booting up some kind of Amiga/Amiga-Like system occasionally.

If you are none of the above, you probably won't see this poll, but you can use the "Other" category and leave a message explaining what your interest and usage level regarding Amiga/Amiga-Like systems is.

I have allowed multiple choices and "Pancakes" to try to please everyone.

[amigadave]

Er... no poll options showing up at time of posting...

Takes a few minutes to type them Matt.

[amigadave]

I voted once for each of the top two choices, as I use one or the other every week, or every day and often I use both a Classic system and a MorphOS system often enough to qualify for both the top two choices.  If I don't boot up one of my MorphOS computers, it is most likely that it is because I have been on one of my Classic Amiga systems.  Lately I have been on my A1200/060 more than anything else.

As for the real question, how many users are left, none of the retailers or developers of any of the OSes will give us exact numbers to base our estimates on and make an accurate guess.  MorphOS2.x has a counter attached to each new registration email, so we know how many systems have been registered to run MorphOS2.x, but many users have multiple MorphOS2.x systems, so we don't know exactly how many MorphOS2.x users there are (I have three registered MorphOS2.7 systems).  Amiga.org shows over 900 "Active" members and thousands of signed up members, but only 150 to 200 really seem to be active here.

There are some users that still believe that there are thousands of Amiga users out there around the world, but I really doubt it.  What do you think?

[amigadave]

I was hoping to get some discussion on the question, but I forgot to include my estimates to get the discussion started, so here they are.

Active Classic Amiga Users = Less than 300 (that boot up often enough to fit the definition given in this poll).

Active Amiga-Like Users = Probably about 1,000 (that boot up often enough to fit the definition given in this poll).

Amiga Lurker's = I think there are probably still another 1,000 to 2,000 people, above the numbers for the two groups above, that are still interested enough in the Amiga to check forum sites, post message once in a while, and boot some kind of Amiga/Amiga-Like system once in a while.

With there being a lot of overlap between the first two groups, I am guessing that the total number of people still having any kind of active interest in anything Amiga is probably around 2,000 to 3,000 people (which is very sad).  The number of people that are likely to spend money on Amiga/Amiga-Like hardware and/or software purchases is much smaller, probably 1,000 at the most.  A very small market for developers and hardware manufacturer's.

@Ismart,

I would agree with your estimate for Germany being about 500 users that are still "Active", but I think that your 70,000 number is crazy.  Remember that I am asking about "Active" users who boot up and use an Amiga/Amiga-Like system at least once or twice "every" week and use it for at least 15 to 30 minutes "every" week.  Not just people that own an Amiga/Amiga-Like system and turn it on once a month or less.

The most active countries or areas that still have an interest in anything Amiga seem to be Germany, the UK, Poland and some other nearby countries, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, & the USA, with additional users still active in Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico, Japan and maybe a few users in China.  So, I don't think we can assume that if there are 500 users still in Germany (or a few more), that there are that many in all of the other countries that the Amiga was sold, as it was not as popular in the other countries as it was in Germany & the UK.

[amigadave]

Right. I was also thinking about people who treasure their old box, but wouldn´t dream about reading in a forum or getting updates/repairs. They won´t turn on the machine in any regular interval. However I think they do matter and belong to the community in a way.

Yes, I agree that there might be 70,000 people that have heard about the Amiga and remember it fondly (or otherwise), but I don't consider them as users anymore, and certainly not "Active" users.  I am curious to know how many "Active" and "Semi-Active" users (=Lurkers)  there are left.  Not just former Amiga owners/users.

[amigadave]

So far no one has mentioned UAE which is what i use. Are you discriminating against UAE users here?

PS last night i banged my head on the wall and now i have a headache...  

From the original post in this thread:

""Active Amiga-Like User" =  Someone who boots up one or more of any of  the following operating systems and use it for at least 15 to 30 minutes  once or twice each and every week.  AmigaOS1.x to 3.x, including  running it via emulation on non-Amiga hardware, AmigaOS4.x, MorphOS1.x,  or 2.x, any flavor of AROS."

Booting any version of AmigaOS on non-Amiga hardware would include using any version of UAE.

[amigadave]

First post here.  I am very much a lurker.

The funny thing though - I do not own an Amiga, and have actually never used an Amiga in my life.  I simply love computer history and appreciate how the Amiga advanced computing.

When I heard that Commodore USA was going to sell an "Amiga", I started visiting this site to get the reaction from you guys.  Since then I've found this board to be very informative and entertaining.

Welcome Rogee!

Nice to see someone who does not normally post messages on the forum replying to this thread.  It is also interesting how you found out about the Amiga and ironic.  Makes me laugh even harder at all the fools that have put up such a stink about the new Commodore USA with hate mail and messages.  To have a potential new user come into the community because of the advertising done by Commodore USA is a good thing and many people will hate to admit that anything good could come from the company that they love to hate so much.

Welcome to Amiga.org and I hope that you will find the Amiga interesting enough to one day actually use one, or at least to run an Amiga emulation on whichever computer system you usually use the most.  Computer history is an interesting subject to many of us.  Using an Amiga becomes an addiction, so beware, once you start, you will never be able to stop (and it can get very expensive buying Amiga gear, if you decide to buy your own real Commodore Amiga hardware from the past, not the new Linux machines with only an Amiga badge on them from the new Commodore USA company).

[amigadave]

You ask how many users are left?  Can I ask how many are coming?

Whenever I go home, my parents home that is, I would inevitably get the A500 up and running again.  But last time I went to boot and did the chip ram hack and bought some gear from Amikit and Amigamaniac in order to get it hooked up to a modern projector.  In the end, my brother adopted the machine and his kids are still using it for gaming.

So my Amiga interest goes as far as I can make it back home every so often.  Which is less and less often as one may imagine.  But it's good to think that our A500 is being used by the next generation a bit.  Who can say how far that will go?

Always good to see new computer users being introduced to a Classic Amiga computer (instead of just buying them an X-Box360, Playstation, or Wii).

My grandson will be getting his own Amiga from my collection, as soon as he and his Dad move to a bigger place to live this Summer.  I always try to encourage Amiga users to get young people to use Amiga computers, and if possible, teach them how to program on them.  New users and programmers have to come from somewhere.

[amigadave]

I have an A1200 I don't use.  I have a PowerMac G4 with MorphOS on it that I don't use.  I have a MicroA1 with AmigaOS 4.1 on it that I loaned to another developer.  I suppose lurker describes me even though I have some technical knowledge about Amiga and I sometimes use EUAE on my Intel Mac Mini.

Aren't you still actively developing Amiga, or Amiga-Like software SamuraiCrow?

It would surprise me if you did not qualify as an "Active Amiga User".  I thought you were always writing some kind of code that was Amiga related.  Is work on Matthais still progressing, or has it stalled?

I guess even some of the oldest (not age, but length of Amiga user status) Amiga users take breaks from using some kind of Amiga experience from time to time.

I wonder how many "Active Amiga Users" there are in the world that never visit this site?  I just can't imagine someone who uses an Amiga (of any kind) regularly that does not get on the Internet and visit Amiga forum sites at least once in a while, be it this site or another one.  If they are really that active in using an Amiga (of any kind), I would think that they also would be active in visiting at least one or more Amiga related forum sites.

[amigadave]

I know many Amiga users who rarely (if ever) visit forum sites. Not so many like to speak in foreign language.

But aren't there Amiga forum sites in their native language that they could visit?

I would think that they would visit at least one Amiga related forum site, even if only to read it through a web page translation tool, like Google, or something else.

[amigadave]

I use my Amiga daily especially my A1200 as for number i know of at least 5 people, 4 of which are active classic users that user their Amiga's daily BUT don't visit forums. I would put the figure to be at least 150-200 in Australia alone.
Also now that the A1200 is fully set up my kids like playing games on it as well, just got to set up the A500 and CD32 for them too so at least from my end my Amiga have a future with my kids.

4 of your 5 Amiga using friends never visit any Amiga related forums?  That is very surprising to me, that they would not use a PC or Mac or Linux machine in addition to their Amiga (or the Amiga itself) to browse the Internet and visit at least one Amiga related website to read news and maybe a few forum posts.  I know that there are many lurkers on forum sites that do not like to post replies on the forums, but I figured most Amiga users were at least reading the news on one or more Amiga related websites on a regular basis.

I may have to re-evaluate my estimate of how many active Amiga users are left out there.  If your example is typical for many countries, there could be twice the number of users than I think there are.  Every Amiga owner/user that I know uses the Internet every day and visits Amiga forum sites, so my experience is very different than yours.

[amigadave]

That is the kind of "sneaky" I can support whole heartedly!  Once they try them out and find out how good some of the game play is for so many Amiga games, they will not miss all the fancy graphics of modern games so much.  I have watched my Son play some X-Box360 games that have gorgeous graphics, but the game play looks so repetitive and boring after a while.  My Son uses his games as a big part of his social networking, since we moved a few years ago.  That way he can still keep in touch with his old friends and play games with them via the head set and micro-phone while playing several different kinds of games that support talking to your team-mates while playing.  He is 17 now (almost 18), and I never was successful in getting him to play much on any Amigas for more than a week before he headed back to the X-Box360, or PC games on his AMD powered Windows computer.  I hope other Amiga users are more successful at getting their kids interested in using Amigas, so there will be a new generation of Amiga users to replace us oldtimers.  I am still hoping that my Grandson will continue to show an increased interest in the Amiga, as he will be getting his own A500 from my collection as soon as they move into a bigger house later this Summer.

[amigadave]

I'm sure an Amiga Tech A1200 or A4000 fits in the first category..

Yeah, I should have wrote designed by CBM, or just "Classic Amiga", but someone probably would have figured out some kind of complaint no matter which descriptions I used.  Can't please all the people all the time, specially in the world of Amiga.

[amigadave]

MorphOS users number almost 2000 by themselves. AOS4 numbers aren't known (ask Hyperion). I suspect that the number of legacy users may be higher than estimated. UAE users may be more numerous than legacy users (what's your fastest 'Amiga'? A PC).
My own loose estimate? Slightly under 10,000.

Very interesting estimates/claims, do you have a source for your "almost 2000" MorphOS users?  Since there are less than 1,200 MorphOS2.x registered systems and many MorphOS2.x users have more than one registered system, the number of MorphOS2.x users is obviously less than 1,000, so you must have some info about how many MorhpOS1.4.5 users are still actively using the free version of MorphOS1.4.5.

Also, remember the definitions in this thread/poll for "Active" users, not just occasional users, or people that own an Amiga, or Amiga-Like system and turn it on once in a while.  Do you think there are "slightly under 10,000" active users?   I doubt it.  There could be that number of people that are still have some level of interest about Amiga systems.

[amigadave]

Mattathias stalled ages ago.  I'm now on the NatAmi team because it would be easier to make a new computer to run AmosPro on than it would be to make AmosPro run on the NG Amigas without an emulator.

The most programming I've done in the past month has been helping Cammy with her adventure game engine in AmigaE.

I'm on many Amiga-related teams including MUIBuilder (though I don't know how MUI works), AROS (because it looks like the least common denominator of all Amiga-like OSs), and NatAmi (because I want to run Classic Amiga software).  I haven't done much for any of them and wonder if I ever will.

It's hard being unemployed and wondering if my next paycheck will ever come.

I have seen you around many projects and forum sites and appreciate your views on many topics and your choices of which projects to join and work on.  If I ever make it to Minnesota, I will try to look you up and say hi.  If you ever visit Calif. I hope you do the same.  I am sorry to read that Matthias has stalled, but understand the reasons and I am glad that you are part of the Natami team.  

Although the Natami is behind schedule and gets criticized for being too ambitious, or unrealistic by some people, I think that it will succeed and become a great product some day.  I think it has a good chance to become the fastest Amiga clone and add some very useful features to the original Amiga design.  I am looking forward to seeing the faster blitter and SuperAGA, plus the other speed enhancements and increased RAM capabilities that the Natami will bring to what will essentially be a new Classic Amiga in the truest sense of the word.

Also, congratulations and thanks for your work with Cammy on her AmigaE coding.  She is another one of my favorite Amiga people.

Edit:  Sorry to hear about your unemployment situation.  I have been unemployed for about 4 years now, due to a bad back and failed back surgery that made it worse, but I am hoping a second surgery will improve my condition, so I can get back to some kind of work.  I hope you find some employment, or self employment opportunity that you enjoy and meets your income requirements.  Times are hard for almost everyone I know right now.