DiscreetFX Platform Shift

[amigadave]

Does that tell you about the type of people that are abandoning Windows in favour of a Mac?
It only proves to me that Windows Vista and 7 are lousy or at least not what a lot consumers wanted after XP.
It also could suggest that the previous $3000 to $4000 price tag of Macs was offputting.
Now if only we can attract more commercial software to Linux.

I don't think the announcement proves anything about Windows Vista and 7, it only reflects the current state of most people's financial down-turn and that they are spending less because of it.

Commercial software developers are attracted to users and platforms where they see people spending money to buy their products.  Most Linux users want everything for free, so there are always going to be fewer commercial software choices on Linux than other OSes, until the Linux user's spending habits change.  (I would still love to see Linux, or any other OS take down Windows, or at least become a serious competitor, some day in the future.  Not that I have any religious dislike or hate toward Windows, but it sucks to have one OS so dominant in the market to the point that it negatively affects software development and innovation on the other OS platforms)

Edit: Come to think of it (sadly), most *Amiga* users (*AmigaOS3.x, AmigaOS4.x, MorphOS2.x & AROS*) want all their software for free, or at very cheap prices, just like Linux users.  This attitude does not encourage more development of new, or updated apps and games for *us*.  So, next time you think about the lack of software (or hardware items too) for the *Amiga* community, spend your money supporting our remaining developers and hardware designers/manufacturers, or donate to a bounty to get the software or hardware you want to see created for the *Amiga*.  (Oh yes, also stop comparing prices of *Amiga* software and hardware to that available on other platforms, because it is your choice to use, or not use the *Amiga* platform, and unless there is another choice of software, or hardware item that is available for you to use on your *Amiga* computer of choice, at a lower price, you are stuck with paying the price asked, switching away from the *Amiga* to use Linux, Windows, or MacOSX, or creating the *Amiga* software/hardware item yourself.  Comparing it to what is available for Linux, Windows, or MacOSX does not help anything, anyone, or make any difference in getting what you want at a lower price.)  If you want a bigger and better *Amiga* community with more software and hardware choices, do something positive about it.  Spend your money, volunteer to assist developers with documentation and/or language translations, learn to program for the *Amiga* flavor of your choice (or cross compile for all flavors of the *Amiga* experience) and create some software for all of us to use and enjoy, or get involved in a user group, or project that "grows" more *Amiga* users by generating interest in new users and/or former Amiga users, so they can do any of the above for our community.

[amigadave]

@amigadave
On the other hand, as much as I have seen and heard that speech, I come to think that sadly many Amiga resellers/developers/hardware_designers (but not all), want to milk the cow at exorbitant prices and lousy products, with the old tale of economy of scale, niche markets, or whatever.

This is an attitude that does not encourage the preservation of the Amiga as a viable commercial market at all.

As hard as it is to understand and accept, it is not the Amiga resellers/developers/hardware_designers job to preserve the Amiga market.  (I agree that some degree of cooperation is desirable, and would hope that they wish the Amiga market to continue, since it is in their best interest, but only if they continue to make a profit from Amiga products and services)

They provide, or try to provide a service or product at a price that they can make a profit from at a price they believe the "market" will pay.  If there is no market, they move into other markets where they can make a profit, or they close shop and do something else.  Of course any reseller/developer/hardware_designer that deliberately price gouges their customers will not survive long in any market, so I am not condoning such an attitude or actions, but all to often the Amiga users cry about the prices they must pay for services or products without having any clue about the actual operational & production costs to provide those services or products.  

You have your opinion regarding how often Amiga services and products are being offered at "exorbitant" prices, which differs from my opinion about how often this happens, but if no one else is offering the same service or product to the Amiga community it does not matter what either of us think.  It is the sellers choice to ask what ever they want and let the "market" determine if the service or product will survive at that price point.  The point I was trying to make was that if we don't show existing and potential new resellers/developers/hardware_designers that there is an Amiga market willing to spend money on Amiga products and services, we will not see any new resellers/developers/hardware_designers and eventually will lose the existing resellers/developers/hardware_designers that we have now.

They even make investments on unreasonably dumb bounties that after sometime they regret that they have supported, instead of focusing what the community, and finally, what that market needs.

You are obviously referring to specific company(ies) and product(s) that you feel are not needed or wanted by the Amiga community.  My response to that is, if the product or service is not wanted or needed it will fail to sell and hurts only the company or individual(s) who have invested the time and money to produce it.  I don't see how that hurts the Amiga community, unless other companies see the failure as a lack of an Amiga community being left to support any similar products they might be thinking of producing.

Look, on the contrary, how succesfull some very few Amiga resellers/developers/hardware_designers have been, that they felt humble enough, and took the time to analyse the community´s needs and have provided viable solutions.

I don't understand how this point is related to what I wrote.  Good products at prices the community is willing to pay succeed and bad ones, or ones that are priced too high, don't succeed.

The Amiga user market has indeed responded by buying from them leaving many of their products literally out of stock.

It is not that Amiga users are cheap. As an example, all Amiga users I have personally contacted so far this year, have at least spent 200 US$ in Amiga accesories this year, despite there are not many available, and even some like me, have spent well over 800 US$. But then most of the time I, like many others find difficult, if not impossible, to get a particular Amiga item, despite the money that we have already stashed for that purpose.

How much of the money above that you mentioned was spent on software (not counting the OS)?  My guess is zero, or very close to it.  My comparison of Amiga users to Linux users was mostly in regard to the willingness of the users to spend money on 3rd party software, not hardware.  I don't know too many users of any platform that expect to get their hardware for free.  I could have been more specific and excluded all hardware from my message, but chose to be inclusive, instead of software specific.  What is lacking from the Amiga community today, the availability of new, modern software to bring us closer to having a system we can use for more of our computing needs, or hardware to run the *Amiga* OS of your choice?  My opinion says (now that we have at least SOME hardware available) we need more developers and 3rd party software and games much more than hardware to increase the number of users and by having more users, we will see more developers and larger production runs of hardware.

So sanity and cooperation have to work both ways

I totally agree!

[amigadave]

Good Luck, doesn't take a brain scientist to see why your developing for Windows's millions of users vs Amigas thousands of users.

1% of a million is way better then 10% of a thousand

I wish we still had thousands who were actually actively using their Amigas, Classic, Next Gen, or Emulation.  I haven't seen any evidence that we have over 1,999 users left who still use their Amiga computers as anything more than a nostalgic hobby, or an interesting diversion from their mainstream computer experiences (which are almost always required for work, or because they can't do everything they need, or want to do on a computer from their Amiga, or Amiga-Like computers), which they turn on more than once a week, or once a month.

I hope, or wish someone can/could prove me wrong and show me that we still have 2,000+, or several thousand Amiga users (all varieties) who still use their Amiga computers for more than the occasional game once or twice a week, or month.  I wish someone could prove to me that we still have over 100 to 200 developers, writing code for the Amiga (all varieties), because we desperately need many new and/or updated applications and it would be nice to get some new games too.

@DiscreetFX, sorry for the off topic rant and good luck switching your focus from Windows to MacOSX as your primary target for new applications.

[amigadave]

While I agree with your sentiments, I have to disagree on the Amiga being nothing more than a hobby or diversion.

I use my Amigas for all my computing need's, Audio, Gfx, DTP etc.. on a daily basis, the only thing I use my iMac for is the net...

I did not say that the Amiga is nothing more than a hobby or diversion!  Read my post again, slowly this time, and you will see that I wrote that I don't believe that there are "thousands" of Amiga users in the World that use their Amiga's as more than a hobby, or occasional diversion.  Big difference!

My point is that the Amiga (in any form) is NOT just a hobby or occasional diversion to only a few hundred users Worldwide.  To the rest of the people that even know or remember what the name Amiga means, the Amiga "IS" nothing more than a hobby, or an occasional entertaining diversion.

Is that more clear?

If anyone can prove me wrong, I would be happy to see the proof.  I am one of the users that like to think of the Amiga (and all of it's derivatives) as something more than a hobby, diversion, or toy, but it is a choice that takes additional effort to realize, where using a Windows, Mac, or even a Linux computer these days is easier and comes with more software & hardware choices.  

I am happy to make that choice and call myself an Amiga user and supporter, but I would like to be an even better user and supporter by using my Amiga (and MorphOS) computers more and MacOSX and Windows less.  Having more AmigaOS & MorphOS software would help, but I must admit, laziness is a key factor which keeps me from using my AmigaOS & MorphOS computers more, as after using only an Amiga at home for many years and then getting caught up with using Windows at work and finally buying a Windows laptop as my first PC, I gradually moved away from using my Amiga and became a collector, more than a user.  

I have gotten back to using my Amigas and also started using MorphOS, but still have not gotten back to the level of Amiga/MorphOS use to equal my previous familiarity with the Amiga I had in the past, but I am working on it.  I would guess that the same pattern of Amiga use is shared by many Amiga users.  Probably more in the USA than in other parts of the World.  Specially in the UK, EU and Australia, where the Amiga had a larger percentage of the total computer user base over a longer period of time, with some users staying active continuously, without any break in use, like my switch to a Windows laptop at home.