the_leander wrote:
I think you need to get your prescription checked - clearly we are reading different things.
My prescription is fine thank you, it is you who live in the fantasy world and interpret your surroundings through those colored glasses to the point where you cannot even consider another person's POV (probably inhibited due to your arrogance). But I agree we are seeing two very different things in this thread.
It's called probability, backed up with a very sharp memory of what has happened to get us here. When the odds get big enough, the chances of something happening will eventually become so small as to effectively render them impossible for all intents and purposes.
...... But even then, it is far more likely that a C=One or that C= Joystick would be the resulting product rather then an Amiga Inspired Desktop killer OS. Which I might add, Bloodline has already correctly pointed out is a market that has already been won.
This explains your misguided statements. No one but a fool thinks that the Amiga is going to inspire a "Desktop killer OS" that will compete directly against Windows, or even the Mac. No where have I stated or implied that idea and that is not what this thread is about. It started out with a big argument about what is a "real" Amiga and what is not. On that point I agreed for the most part with bloodline's POV and definition.
A new AmigaOS does not have to compete against Windows or the Mac to be a success, or fulfill the wants of most/many current Amiga users, former users and other computer users that are just sick and tired of Windows and too intimidated to deal with the remaining problems of Linux. Maybe for you and bloodline a new AmigaOS must fit into a narrow description of specific rules to make it worthwhile. I think it is you that are being the pricks in trying to talk down to everyone else that disagrees about what can and cannot be done and the way it has to be to make it worth any effort.
Just because you have some prior knowledge and experience with Amiga development and its failures, or setbacks in the past, does not make your opinions the only valid ones.
Wrong, by the very nature of the AmigaOS, understanding it's capabilities and its shorcommings, the fact that the market is changing means that the AmigaOS is becomming less and less relevant as a desktop OS, indeed, the concept of a desktop is beginning to change itself with the advent of the Netbook. With each of these changes in the market, the amount of work that would be required to shoehorn the AmigaOS into it increases exponentially. At some point, you have to accept that the Amiga has no place in the modern age beyond that of a hobbyist machine or even just as a toy.
"Understanding it's capabilities and ....." You are writing about the current AmigaOS' limitations as if any new work must be dependent on it and cannot free itself from the past. I am writing about creating something new that is not limited by the past, but builds on the legacy items that can be saved without crippling the future.
Your argument, as Hans put so well and so briefly in his summary of Piru's side of the argument, is that it will take too long, cost too much, there are not enough resources to work on such a project, and it is not worth the effort because there are alternatives already available.
All valid points and they support your "probability" that there is a good chance nothing will happen, but ..... (see next point).
Linux was useful to more then Linus. If AmigaOS had been useful to others, it would already have been picked up by now.
My point that you have worked so hard to refute over and over again is that if a new AmigaOS (Amiga-Like) were created next year, or the year after that has advanced features and innovative ideas that are not available, or perhaps not possible in other OSes, perhaps due to their own legacy limitations, then that new AmigaOS would be "useful to more than Linus".
I understand that your argument about providing certain modern capabilities will break some of the very things that make any OS "Amiga-Like". I get it!
All I have been trying to say this entire time is that hope for a better AmigaOS should not be abandoned just because the odds of anything improving are so very small and because we have only our past 10 years of failures and disappointments to look back on.
It would be much more productive for technically inclined Amiga users like yourselves to help find what can be done instead of repeating what cannot.
And yes, I am stepping up to put my money where my mouth is by looking for a PegasosII G4/1ghz to purchase and learning more about programming so I can help with several different projects.
I will enjoy my Classic Amiga collection (incl. my MiniMig & soon a NatAmi), actively work on the current "State of the Art" (IMHO) Amiga-Like system and prepare myself to help with creating or writing programs for a future OS which I hope will be both Open Source and Amiga-Like even if it is not named "AmigaOS".
It appears you assume you know what I, or other Amiga users want from a new AmigaOS. You are wrong about me, and possibly others as well.
I've followed 2 major reimplimentations of OS's, AROS and Haiku. I have also seen the Refit of an OS, Zeta, which was based on the original BeOS code itself.
Haiku and Zeta took 7 years to get where they were, Zeta, even with the head start of having the code available, wasn't able to come up with an answer that realistically could survive in the current OS marketplace as anything other then a hobbiest system, Haiku, initiated as Be's ashes were still glowing, has taken since 2001 to get to early Alpha stage. AROS took even longer (though to be fair, there was a damn sight more work needed to get it to where it is today over Haiku).
Understanding how fast these projects take, one can reasonably extrapolate that with the same amount of funding, how long a project doing a similar thing, will take. It's not rocket science.
You can extrapolate. Bullcr@p!
What amount of funding would that be?
What are the number of programmers that will be interested in working on this new project?
What code can be borrowed from and improved upon from the Open Source community?
I could go on and on with the number of variables that you could not have any knowledge of prior to the beginning of any new OS project, which makes your statement a joke.
Most Amiga users woke up around 2002-2003 and went to other platforms, I went to BeOS, later Zeta and Haiku, many went to linux, most went to Windows and Mac.
Oh well, they will be back if something sparks their interest. Since I am not involved in this for profit, I don't care who else comes back or not.
It is not arrogance, it is realism, it is projections based on what has already happened, what is happening, and what is likely to happen, now if some mad fool comes up and sweeps away all the crap and builds "a new Amiga" with bucket loads of cash, then great, I'm wrong, you're right. But I really do not see any evidence of that happening. Do you have something to share with the group?
Only what I have already shared. It only takes one great idea, not "bucket loads of cash" to start an avalanche of support, as my example of Linus Torvalds clearly shows.
The best you can hope for, is things like Minimig, like NatAmi, like Amithlon, like AROS.
I know sarcasm, being British, it's my bread and butter. I can even use it effectively, something, you have yet to have shown. Snide yes, sarcasm, no.
So not only are you going to dictate what we can hope for, you are going to boast about being the best at sarcasm. Anything else? Should I bow down now to your self proclaimed superiority? (I think NOT)
Arrogance: offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.
That seems to fit your tone exactly! You are so full of yourself.
I'll be the judge of what's the best I can hope for.
