Rochester, NY teacher gets suspended for washing students mouth out with soap

[KennyR]

I don't want to sound like an old conservative here, but I wish teachers would do that more often.

And soap isn't poisonous, not is it physical or sexual assault...nor is it prolonged psychological assault...so I don't see any basis for the suspension. Apart from typical lawsuitism. (to coin a phrase)

[KennyR]

Oh hell Speel, it's people with ultraliberal views like that that caused the whole school system to turn into total sh!t. Teachers get abused and attacked on a daily basis. It's just liquid soap on the mouth, not being thrashed with a stick, humped from behind, or thrown out a plate glass window. What do you think teachers should be, the eternal victims in a system that never ever will take their side? Because that's what they are now, that's why I'll never be a teacher although I'm qualified to be, and that's why there aren't enough teachers around anymore.

I'll be nobody's victim, unless now and again I get the chance to score even. And with the current teacher system, that's impossible. If the rules don't allow change, then it can only get worse.

[KennyR]

Laws are supposed to be there for everyone, not for just one party. Laws that don't support both parties don't deserve to be followed.

And kicking students out of school is utterly pointless. Someone else has to get them then, don't they? Better they just get punished properly.

[KennyR]

Speel, I knew some very bad kids when I was growing up. The class under me was one of the worst ever, and attacked bus drivers, teachers, and damaged property. The system did nothing to stop them. One of them was murdered shortly after leaving school, by one of his own gang.

I knew someone too who kept getting kicked out of schools because of his very serious behaviour (putting knives to people's throats, theft, etc). The social seclusion only made him worse and more extreme. I think he's in jail now. The system failed him, and everyone he affected.

And finally, a teacher was raped at my high school. I have no idea who did it (maybe even the guy above), but the teacher never came back, obviously. The system did nothing to protect her.

What do we do with people like that? Keep moving them around? Slap their wrists? Get all touchy feely with them? Why is it the teachers who always get the handcuffs and aren't allowed to do anything about this scum?

No, I'm afraid to say it, but sometimes people need their asses kicked, and hard. If the system isn't working, you need a new system, laws and liberalism be damned. Unless people with your lax views get out of schooling, Eyso, I will never be a teacher. What you call law is one sided, biased, and unfair.

[KennyR]

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
What I read now here is quite another problem, or let I say problems:
The system does not maintain the law properly plus a bad social structure.

The law is the problem. It makes teachers and authorities powerless to act against abusive students. And so social structure suffers. If it is not changed, students will not become any less abusive, only more so. Bringing back physical punishment might not help, but blaming teachers for any failure of the idea that they're supposed to be angerless victims who'll never fight back and shouldn't be respected is even worse.

And Guantanamo Bay is not a school, Speel, and has no place in this debate. Even if it did the people there are not following any law, not even a bad one.

[KennyR]

Sorry Eyso, come back to this thread when you've got a clue. What you're writing has the echo of "ivory tower" all over it.

[KennyR]

Glaucus wrote:
It's either all or nothing. If you allow her to use one drop, what happens when the next teacher decides to empty the entire soap dispenser in a kids mouth? It's a slippery slope, best to stay off it completely.

Oh come on Mike, isn't that a little alarmist? Parents who spank for instance don't suddenly beat their children to death. Everyone knows there's a line you can't cross, and one drop of liquid soap in the mouth of some loudmouthed f*ckwit assh*le student isn't crossing it, IMO.

Soap on the anus...that would be crossing it. But you have to join the army for that kind of treatment.

[KennyR]

Ah Speel, but your line is "don't do a f*cking thing to those students or you're fired and your teaching days are over." That's not any realistic line, although the law shares your view, which is why there aren't many teachers left, and less by the year.

[KennyR]

Virtually all abuse is verbal, not physical, which you should know if you ever went to school and saw this happening. So your line simply does not work. Try again.

[KennyR]

No Speel, preventing injustice, not revenge. Revenge only comes later when a person's been abused and eventually cracks.