Writing a CV/Resumé

[KennyR]

Most of you out there must have done one, right? Can anyone give me any advice in writing one?

I've tried the internet guides, and they suck. They just don't tell me what I want to know - in fact, every time I've managed to write something, one of the guides out there will contradict it. I have no problem with layout or any of that, and certainly no problem with the English.

It's the "selling yourself" part that I just can't do. It's like facing a brick wall. I have no idea what to put here. This is the part that is apparently most important in a CV - sure, I have an honours degree, but everyone else applying for jobs I'll be applying for will have the same.

I'm not really well suited to exaggerating my abilities, which are very few but very specialised. That's why I can't write this buzzword bullsh*t that employers want to hear. I don't work well in a team and can't pretend I do. I don't do anything dynamic or upwardly mobile. None of my interests or hobbies (which I don't have much of) will cast a very positive light on me, in fact they'll probably stereotype me.

So what do I do here? Do I lie my ass off and say I'm a fun person who's great to be around, hard working and devoted, I enjoy playing squash and working voluntarily for the samaritans? Or do I miss this part out completely?

I haven't got a clue how to get this out of the way! :pissed:

[KennyR]

speelgoedmannetje wrote:
You only have to write down wich schools and studies you have done. And your abilities. The "selling" part is that you musn't underestimate your abilities and write 'em down.

I wish...

No, it's industry standard that you have a few sentences about yourself not related to work or education. That's where I'm having the problems.

For a start, if I wrote everything I learned, the CV would be 10 pages long. If I wrote everything that I am not related to my education, then I can't muster a sentence. See my problem?

[KennyR]

speelgoedmannetje wrote:
Maybe you worked on a project or so, and then you can mention the name of that project.
Hell, no one can write down exactly what they've done.

I've done almost nothing outside education that would be of possible interest to an employer. I don't think "Has more comments on Amiga.org than anyone else" for instance would be of particular interest to anyone wanting to employ me.

btw, Kenny, do you have Asperger's syndrome? This problem is typically for people having Asperger. As well as they choose either chemistry or informatics.

Why, do you think I have difficulty communicating my opinions? :-D

[KennyR]

speel wrote:
Just ask your mum or a close friend who knows what you're capable of for help.

I have. Everyone I've asked so far (including whabang ;-))has suggested I lie.

[KennyR]

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
What the employer is interested in is your social capabilities. So when you're an active member of an club, like scouting or a sportclub or something like that, you can mention that in your CV.

I wasn't. I haven't been a member of any club or organisation. In fact I haven't been very active at all. ;-)

As for employers being interested in my social capabilities, the answer is: all are. For people who have lots of work experience, the personal section isn't very important. For graduates however, it's the only difference in a stack of degree-owning CVs some guy has to read through. We had this drummed into us at uni, and if you read any graduate CV guide, you'll see the same thing. There's no escaping it. I've got to prove somehow that I'm better than all the other graduates out there. Being 26 when most over graduates are 22, that has to be a very, very good trick.

And having Asperger's syndrome isn't only about communicating at all. Hell no, I'm diagnosed Asperger (that's why I recognised this problem) and am I not social here at Aorg?

I'm pretty sure I don't have Asperger's. In fact, I'm not even convinced a such a condition exists.

[KennyR]

@Mike_Amiga

Your link is broken. ;-)

Anyway, I did try to get my CV done professionally through the jobcentre. They sent gave me a questionaire to fill in.

It's easy up to when you get to:

2) Personal Profile

HOW DO YOU SEE YOURSELF?

In the following section please write down briefly what qualities you consider yourself to have, what achievements or successes you have attained, what your work outlook or ethics are and what your objectives or aims are for the future (work related). This will be the first section of your CV and a potential selling point to your prospective employer.

As soon as I read that, I'm stuck.

Doing a CV professionally just means doing the write-up in good English. I don't need help for that. It's content I need (unless someone's willing to make up convincing lies for me).

[KennyR]

You must reveal your knowledge and interpretations in a short and convincing way (you must be convinced about yourself when you're writing it).

Then I'm f*cked, aren't I?

And Asperger's not existing once you meet one, you'll DEFINATELY notice otherwise.

Asperger's isn't universally accepted by psychologists. Some believe that most diagnoses are wrong, and actually shyness and social alienation are to blame for the symptoms. If you want social alienation there's no better way to go about it than being smarter than most of your peers, and as a result there is this mysticism around seemingly ultra-intelligent people who have social problems. More likely, they have social problems because they were isolated for being smart, and their answer to this is to hit the books instead of socialise and become even more smart and even more socially unskilled.

I for one don't believe in Asperger's. I think it's a case of nurture, not nature.

[KennyR]

Yes, this is a sales-manager CV, not a chemistry-graduate CV

No, it's a generic CV. This is how they're all done here. If I wanted a job as a refuse collector I'd still have to answer this one.

[KennyR]

@uncharted

AmigaZeux is an IRC channel. It's also user-group of sorts, but I don't see how it puts a positive spin on me for the chemistry industry being part of it. I wish it did.

And no, I don't code. I never really could. Even after spending four years in a Computing course.

About aspergers, I think that has become a medical buzzword to be thrown around whenever some kid doesn't seem to conform to the norm. I'm always mistrustful of buzzwords, or of people who are quick to label non-conformance as "disease".

[KennyR]

No offence Eyso, but you've just told me what everyone else has - and what everyone says seems to always contradict what everyone else says. Nothing helps. I'm still sitting with a sterile list of qualifications with my name on it I call a CV, and no closer ever to finishing. I guess it is just my fault for being such a negative assh*le and I really am unemployable.

[KennyR]

@Mikeymike

I can compress my CV into a few sentences, if you'd like.

Qualifications: BSc. (Hons) Chemistry with IT and Instrumentation at 2:2 grade, graduated in Autumn 2003. University Certificate in Computer Studies. 6 Highers (3 Cs, 4 Bs), 8 Standard Grades.

Schools: Wishaw High School (1990-1992), Clyde Valley High School (1992-1996), Glasgow Caledonian University (1996-2003).

Work History: none.

References/referees: none.

Personal details: I'm very literate and...*grind* *tax brain* *groan*...I give up.


That's basically it. On a sheet of A4 this looks unbelievably pathetic. If I leave out the personal details I might as well not even send it to anyone. It would be useless.

[KennyR]

Can you not write down in an informal way for yourself what you've been doing past years as a hobby (wich does not necesarily be important to your employer) and what you like and what you like to do in the future and so?

I can, but it's not flattering.

[KennyR]

Wow, an AO thread is like a wine: the longer you leave it the better it gets! :-D Or is that 'whine'...? ;-) Never mind. Lots of good points from everyone, and I'll have to pick through it and paste bits in a text editor to reply the most pertitent points. Thanks everyone!

[KennyR]

@Cymric

Excellent points all round, and your post was everything I wanted to hear. If it was a kick in the ass, I didn't feel it - it made some things very clear. I needed people to tell me these things straight, and not just say "Well, it's easy, I did it, you can do it..."


@Glaucus

Having no life in Uni is normal (my sister who's in med has no life either, and that's normal). If anything it says you're responsible (that's a good thing) and comitted (that's another good thing).

See, it's this skill I lack totally - how to pluck positive things out of less positive. I'm just totally blind to that. Do you know of a list of these kind of things maybe someone has published on the internet? I know, I know...it's a long shot. But even a joke list would have some use. ;-)


@minator

You sound like a geek, OK with 5000+ posts here you are a geek. That probably means you will find marketing difficult.

Well, not your classical geek. :-P You won't find me rollplaying or being a guru in BSD/Linux or watching Star Trek and knowing every episode. I'm as focused as a geek though - which I suppose technically makes me one. ;-)

As for 5000 posts - it's amazing what you can do when you have no job.

>Being 26 when most over graduates are 22, that has to be a very,
>very good trick.

What were you doing?

Failing a computing degree. I did manage to get a fairly feeble HNC out of it, but that should have only taken one year and I stretched it out to three. I should have realised earlier that I just wasn't interested in it, but sh*t happens...

>None of my interests or hobbies (which I don't have much of) will cast
>a very positive light on me, in fact they'll probably stereotype me.

Everyone is different, what are they?

IRC.

You may even be depressed (yes, really).

Luckily, no. I know what it is to be depressed. I'm contented. Probably too contented, hence the problem working up any enthuisiasm for a change of life.


@Tigger

Teamwork is pretty important at most jobs, why don't you work well in teams???

I'm too independent and too opinionated, really. I don't have any leadership qualities but at the same time I don't take authority well. What has happened before with teamwork efforts in uni is that I haven't liked the direction the team was going, so went and did it differently myself, usually doubling effort all over the place.

Interests and hobbies, people always underestimate the appeal of this section. In the past I have gotten interviews because I: (lists 5 interesting and colourful hobbies)

I don't have anything near as eye-catching as hobbies. Basically, right now I spend most of my time on IRC and this forum, watching DVDs on rare occassions, and playing old Playstation games when I'm bored. I read, but not fiction. That's it.

Kenny I guess my comment is that if you really believe that you are not fun to be around, not hard working and not devoted, why exactly do you think someone should hire you??

Well, they wouldn't, and I wouldn't expect them to hire me if I went out and said it straight like that. That's why I don't. But anyone who hires me can expect to find me businesslike, detached, and not really interested in contributing anything outside of official work. Nor will I form anything but working relationships with anyone around me.

None of this is very positive. I'm still trying to find a way to make it sound positive. That's the hard part.

I mean do you really think your technical knowledge is so good that as a new hire you can be an asshole, slack off and not show up on days you dont feel like it???

Definitely not. But my reasons for wanting a job are to pay off student loans and get some money in. I don't have any major ambitions related to work or social life.

Have you really never had a job of any kind???

No. None whatsoever.

Also more importantly, what do you mean by no references??

I really don't know what to do about that. I've lost contact with my lecturers and couldn't ask to put them down as references by the time I realised I needed any. Family members aren't usable as references, either.

If you aren't sure who to use, list references available upon request, that way that section isnt a negative.

Thanks, that's a good idea. My bluff will be called if they request though (or I'll have to make an emergency trip to the uni to see what I can find, not much I guess).

Also I guess my other issue is, you graduated in Autumn of 2003, why exactly have you waited till now to work on your resume???

Well, I had to wait until almost November for the results, after missing a June exam due to illness. After that, I've applied for two jobs, and none have asked for a CV yet. They didn't ask for an interview either. I have a CV, but as you can see up in the thread, it's crap.

You also have to understand that, although Scotland pumps out graduates, it has very, very little work for them. Even less for the professional/scientific sector. I might see one job advertised every 2 weeks, if I'm very lucky. It will almost always require a minimum of years of experience.

I am sure someone is going to ask what you have been doing for the last 6 months.

I'll tell them what I told you: local jobs in this area are extremely hard to find, and I'm not willing to move country. After a year of this I'll have to chalk off my degree, it'll be useless by then.


@mikeymike

Another thing - if you've ever done work experience, put it down! Employment history (work experience)!

I don't. I've also done nothing extra-curricular remotely worth noting.  

[KennyR]

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
even in Einstein's curriculum would've stated his job at the gasstation (if he had such a job)

And mine would too, if I had anything to put. But I don't. Not a thing. Not a club, not an achievement, not a part time job. I didn't even deliver papers at 14. I even dodged Work Experience Week at school (it sucked anyway).