AmigaDE for Pegasos PPC website

[bhoggett]

I think the timing is nothing more than another petty point-scoring exercise. Nothing at all can be done until the case is over, and even in the event of Genesi winning it, that does not accord them the rights to TAO's IP regardless of what their contract with Amiga Inc says.

Until otherwise confirmed by TAO, I'd regard everything about AmigaDE on Pegasos or any other PPC platform as pure fantasy.

It's just a publicity stunt folks.

[bhoggett]

@Rodney

AmigaDE does not exist as stand-alone IP. Invariably, it contains TAO's intent, and so any porting has to be done by those who have a license from TAO to do so.

If Genesi win, they claim that they can force Amiga Inc to hand over the source code so that Genesi can do the port themselves. However, unless they obtain separate licensing from TAO, this is BS. No contract between Amiga Inc and Genesi can be binding on TAO, unless there is a special clause in TAO's contract with Amiga Inc (which I doubt Genesi would have been given access to).

As for the gateway theory, bear in mind that there is no licensed port of intent for any PPC solution at the moment. Therefore, this gateway is there to provide what precisely? Support for something that doesn't exist?

As for AmigaDE development, you forget that no one has access to the up-to-date kits without signing both NDAs and SDAs with Amiga Inc. I'd think those agreements preclude putting any relevant or genuinely helpful information on a public website.

Surely, you should be able to recognise another episode of Peg-Pong when you see it.

(Not to mention that AmigaDE is a dead duck and utterly useless on any desktop system)

[bhoggett]

@bbrv

Well, perception is reality.  Here is the reality: there is nothing unless there are people to do it.  There are now 13 registered users.  Can it be something?  Sure.  Why not?!  :-)

AmigaDE had 3000 registered developers at one point, according to statistics (allegedly). AW.net is supposed to have well over 1000 active members, according to statistics.

'nuff said.

This Developer sites are like the others.

We put them up.  We hire someone from the registered users to maintain and moderate it.  We see what happens.

Hence the fishing expedition, or the reference to Peg-Pong.

Francis Charig is a business man.  If there is an opportunity to profit from a relationship he will.  Half of the DE license fee to be paid goes to Tao anyway.

But there is no deal between you and them, and no guarantee that there will ever be one. License fees notwithstanding, there are responsibilities for both parties in such an agreement. What's to say that your vision fits in with TAO's plans?

P.S. Cannot resist...Bill, can you feel the metaMorphOSis?  :lol:

Well, I can only suggest that you reserve that kind of word play for those who are amused by it. I prefer something called wit with my humorous repartees. Look it up in a dictionary sometime.  ;-)

[bhoggett]

@bbrv

Of course, all that changes in with a favorable ruling..

Actually, it doesn't change anything. A favourable ruling is binding on Amiga Inc, not on TAO. All it will mean is that Amiga Inc will have been found to owe you something they cannot legally deliver.

A bad situation for Amiga Inc (if it could get any worse) but not one that will make any difference in Real Life (tm) unless you strike a separate licensing deal with TAO - which you do not have at this time.

[bhoggett]

@AmigaMac

Is there any way that Genesi and Amiga Inc. can settle this matter peacefully?

Of course there is, but you'd have to persuade Amiga Inc out of their entrenched position first. Good luck in that attempt, because you'll need it.

It would be great to see the 2 companies form an alliance and keep with their strategies while building a solid foundation for the Amiga Developer community.  The idea of having 2 Amiga platforms out there is actually a good thing (I came to realize that now) which will help push innovation for the Amiga platform drastically.  Also with 2 companies pushing for the platform should help build a strong developer base for Amiga apps.

Can't we all just get along  :-?

You'd be surprised what a whiff of power does to people. Amiga Inc think they ought to make the rules because they paid for the brand, (and, as they see it, the priviledge of being in chrage that they believe goes with it) while Genesi feel that they hold all the current aces and have no need to compromise.

Getting people to co-operate when they're ruled by ego, pride or delusions of grandeur is a surprisingly difficult thing to do. Many would rather go down in flames first.

[bhoggett]

@Glaucus

Might I suggest you read a thread fully before jumping in feet first?

The "entrenched position" refers to Amiga Inc's stance over AmigaDE. As long as their position is "no deal" then no negotiations or compromises are possible.

The rest of your post simply repeats what I've already said, and then goes on to apparently class me as a MOS fanatic. It amazes me that people like you seem outraged by Genesi's tactics, but had no complaints to make when Fleecy threatened legal action left, right and center and Ben Hermans made all sorts of allegations about illegal code, when neither was prepared to put up any evidence to back their claims. Why are Genesi dirty tricks so terrible and Amiga Inc ones go without comment or even get vociferous backing by certain people?

Too many people with double standards are under the delusion that they have the moral high ground.

[bhoggett]

@Glaucus

Who is and who is not in the right regarding DE will eventually be decided by the court. There is a contract involved, after all, and if the court decides that contract is breached, then Genesi are perfectly entitled to enforce it, whatever their ulterior motives may be.

The reason I'm singling out Amiga Inc on the issue is because so far they are the ones who have made it plain they will not negotiate. I haven't heard anything to suggest Genesi would not accept an out-of-court settlement if Amiga Inc were prepared to consider a compromise.

You seem to saying that Genesi are inflexible for not dropping the matter altogether. I would respectfully suggest that is not how compromises work. For one side to give up something, the other side must do so too.

I suspect we can all speculate about Genesi's real motives for pursuing the matter, but I submit those are irrelevant. Given the opportunity does anyone have any doubt Amiga Inc would try to damage Genesi if the tables were turned?

(I should add that I would very much like to see the court decide on the matter on the merits of the evidence presented, and not as a result of a default situation. A default judgement would only leave the impression that the result was obtained by manipulation of the justice system, rather than a manifestation of justice itself. At the same time interminable delays are intolerable and cannot be allowed to continue. A final resolution is desperately needed)

[bhoggett]

@Coder

re: AmigaDE

What's different about it now then 1 year ago?

The difference between now and one year ago is the same as the difference between now and two years ago, and not a significant improvement over that from three years ago.

I seriously doubt the addition of AmigaDE capabilities would add anything of value to any OS, be it AmigaOS4 or MorphOS.

[bhoggett]

@Rodney

also i think it was Gary C that said it... I also thought that intent ran on PPC. I was told this about a year ago i think by someone at Amiga Inc... maybe fleecy? Cant remember.

intent can run on PPC, but there is no licensed version for PPC at this time. In other words, it's merely theoretical from a developer's point of view.

Well its not big atm, but remember Amiga Incs long term plan is to get AmigaOS running through the DE, which is a grand idea. Much like the .net strategy without all the webservices crap.

No, that was the idea, before it became clear that intent does not have the infrastructure to host a full desktop OS. Amiga Inc formulated their plans without doing their homework, which was to set the tone for their tenure of mismanagement.

Hosting desktop operating systems was never TAO's priority, and still isn't. You're not going to see a future AmigaOS built on top of intent in your lifetime.

Furthermore, the "AmigaDE" component is virtually insignificant, and offers nothing that alternative solutions don't offer. What was exciting three years ago is no longer unique.

The most valuable part of AmigaDE is the "Amiga" brand.

[bhoggett]

@Hammer

The bottom line is we do not know if AmigaDE is worth the license fee that we will pay to integrate it into a product offering we make.

Could you port the open sourced MONO (DOTNET) framework instead for MorphOS?  

Indeed, looking to adopt MONO would be a far more adventurous move. The only drawback I see with MONO is that it is basically an open-source "copy" of .NET, which mean the direction is dictated by Microsoft.

However .NET (and by implication MONO) is a far more mature and encompassing technology than that employed in AmigaDE.

[bhoggett]

@cockney_dave

Oh dear, looks like another hopeless attempt by Genesi to undermine Amiga Incs work...

What work?

[bhoggett]

@bbrv

The point is why couldn't MONO head off in its own direction. BTW, did you notice that the contact information goes to a ximian email address!

It could go in its own direction, but that would be counter-productive unless its adoption starts to rival that of the Microsoft original.

The Ximian connection comes from the fact that they were instrumental in starting the MONO project, long before Novell entered they picture.

...and consequently Novell (and IBM) are involved. PowerPC is to be fully supported. It is partially today.

The idea behind such technologies is to make them hardware agnostic.