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Author Topic: AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.  (Read 32319 times)

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Offline bhoggett

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Re: AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.
« on: August 12, 2003, 09:31:43 AM »
Wayne wrote:

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This community has survived 8 years without Commodore. This community has survived 3 years of Amiga Inc. We have grown up together, we have all had good moments and bad. Now that there are good things happening for the community by way of several available alternative options, it is radicalism and closed-mindedness which is destroying the community that WE built. (NOT Commodore. Not Amiga International, NOT Escom, NOT Amiga Inc., and NOT Genesi). Closed-mindedness is NOT what the Amiga has ever been about. Quite the contrary.


Hear, hear.  There's just nothing more I could add to that.
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Offline bhoggett

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Re: AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2003, 12:10:23 PM »
@amigaguy
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If MorphOS or AmigaOS are ever really going to prosper then they need to go x86. I'm not saying they should leave PPC all together, but if you want to sell more then a few thousand copies of your OS then you need to look at targeting the 100s of millions of computers out there and there all x86.


Uh, oh. Look out for the brickbats. If my experience in saying this is anything to go by, you'll be flamed and branded an "x86 troll" in no time.

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I can understand why Genesi wants PPC. They make hardware and probably couldn't compete if they were making just another x86 board. I understand that, but I just don't see how MorphOS will ever sell more than a few thousands copies.


I share this view, though most MOS supporters do not.

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As for AmigaInc? I have no idea why they are going the PPC route.


They are not. However, Amiga Inc are no longer in control, either directionally or financially, so they have no choice but go along with what their partners decide.  As for why Hyperion and Eyetech would nail their colours to the PPC mast, that's much easier to see.

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People might fork out $99 to buy AmigaOS or MorphOS, but no one other than a few old and a few thousand of the current Amiga die hards are going to buy a "Special" computer to run it on. No Chance!


Absolutely.  If the "Amiga" (and I'm using the term in the generic sense rather than the trademarked one) is ever to rise in people's consciousness again, it needs to go for as many users as possible. This means embracing all sorts of people and hardware platforms, and dropping the "niche" mentality. Niche systems are all very well, and might even be commercially viable in the short term, but it will be impossible to attract more than a dozen or so developers to such platforms, and without developers there is no software. No software means no users, etc.

It's time to put aside the differences and co-operate. Criticising people for doing things wrong or incompetence is one thing, but criticising them for making a different choice (or worse, for offering a different choice) is sheer bigotry of the kind that has been ruining this community for years.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2003, 01:13:32 PM »
@pixie

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Originality, they don't posess that...


That's a double-edged argument, even more so these days.

Much of the original AmigaOS was NOT original in design, and as time has gone by lots more has been borrowed from other platforms.

Operating system technology evolves. Good ideas spread and bad ones fall by the wayside, that's the way of things. Most people who apply the phrase "the original and the best" to operating systems are talking bollox.

The new PPC generation of AmigaOS will be judged for its qualities alone, not by the achievements of its predecessors.  Similarly, MorphOS and AROS should be judged by how they function, not by how long the history of their brand is.  All three are part of the greater "Amiga community", together with Amithlon, UAE etc. Users of all of these will either learn to get along with each other or the community will finally die. There is no future at all as smaller fragmented communities that reject each other as alien.

P.S. and just to actually touch on the "fragmentation" argument in Webb's editorial:

The deed is done. You can't put the genie back into the bottle. Making MorphOS and AROS disappear won't make all those users return to AmigaOS with their tails between their legs.  Most likely, people would just drift away to platforms with a more stable future and the greater Amiga community would shink even further.  As to who is responsible for the original fragmentation, I think we all have our own opinions. Either way, does the recrimination help anyone now?

The way to combat fragmentation is not by enforcing the "one-party state", but by co-operating and applying common standards, so that users can remain within the Amiga community without having their choices reduced by doing so.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2003, 03:48:06 PM »
@gary_c

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As discussed in another thread, I don't think the ranking is the place to advertise corporate affiliations. Rankings should be forum-related, either based on number of posts or a forum function such as moderator or webmaster. The signature is the place to state company or organization affiliations. This is the practice in e-mail and web forums generally and makes sense. It keeps the ranking system consistent. [end of ranking rant ]


I couldn't agree more. Please remove "Genesi USA" from the rankings, unless similar status is given to Amiga Inc, Hyperion, Eyetech, even AROS etc (where would one stop?).

This is silly. Put your company affiliations in the signature, and leave the rankings for the purpose they were designed for. Targhan's status as a Genesi employee should be irrelevant on Amiga.org, and his role as moderator, as with any other moderator, should be totally independent of company affiliation or political preference.

If Amiga.org is to retain its objective reputation as Wayne clearly intended when he stepped down, then the moderators must carry out their duties as if they were completely neutral. Anyone who feels incapable of doing so should resign.

note: this is not aimed at any one person, but it's a concern at this point.  I'm sure Kees will carry out his duties impeccably, and I urge the other moderators to follow his example.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2003, 04:09:32 PM »
@pixie

Brad Webb revealed himself as a total bigot. Furthermore, although the editorial is expressed as an opinion, it makes extensive use of the Royal "we", which suggests that either Brad has serious delusions about his own status, or he is presuming to speak for everyone else who contributes to AmigaUpdate.

Flamebait is flamebait, no matter in what capacity it is expressed. The criticism so far has been much milder than the editorial deserves, IMHO.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2003, 05:06:49 PM »
@downix

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Actually I'd like Hyperion, Eyetech and AInc to have their own little taglines there too. That way all of us would be able to see what's going on. We'd also know that "hey, that guy works for Hyperion, he might be the guy to ask about feature x, y and z."


What's wrong with using signatures for this purpose? Heck, you can even grant everyone from a particular company a company-wide avatar.

The ranking part is just that. It differentiates between users and moderators, and it reflects people's position within Amiga.org.  As things stand now the impression is that Genesi employees have a special standing on this site, and leaves it unclear whether Targhan is moderating in his role as Genesi representative or Amiga.org moderator.

Taglines are one thing, but Amiga.org must remain impartial and objective, and it must be seen to be that way. If people cannot differentiate between their roles for any one company and those at Amiga.org, then they should step down for everyone's sake.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2003, 07:08:18 PM »
@bloodline

Pegasos-UK
Bill Hoggett