Dr. Greg Perry of GPSoftware on Directory Opus for AmigaOS 4

[bhoggett]

Well, it was put down as a misunderstanding months ago when the problem first emerged after Jonathan Potter posted to c.s.a.misc. Hyperion then claimed it was merely an oversight.

That it is still an issue after all this time tends to indicate that the problem is a little more serious than that.

I wish things like this would stop happening to the Amiga industry. It's really bad for business and confidence.

[bhoggett]

@DaveP

His business methods stink. There is something political about this.

Maybe. Then again, maybe Hyperion are really stalling on paying for DOpus until they are ready to actually do the port.

I will agree that going public with this sort of stuff isn't normal business practice, but then again this is the Amiga market, a place where normal business practice is to sweep all the dirt under the carpet and swear blind that it isn't there.  A little openness isn't going to hurt anyone who doesn't deserve to get hurt.

I find your attack on Perry perplexing, and can only explain it by a desire to protect Hyperion's image at all costs.

Let's look at the facts for one minute:

Back on the 21st of May, Jonathan Potter asked the "Hyperion?" question (not Greg, you will notice). The same day James Sellman of Hyperion replied basically admitting that it was Hyperion's fault, and that

"rest assured that we'll work this out with GPSoft."

It is now the middle of December and it seems things weren't "worked out" after all. Call me cynical, but I'd be ready to place a large bet that Hyperion want to postpone paying until they have time to do the port and  put it on the market.

You say the motivation must be political? Well, the big political coup would be to cancel the contract and sell it to Hyperion's rivals (who would, I'm sure, love that kind of publicity). AFAICT, that's not what Perry has said.

Look at it this way: Hyperion have a habit of preferring exclusive contracts. If they signed an excusive contract to port and sell PPC versions of DOpus, GPSoft can't accept any offers from anyone else to do the same. That's fine if everything goes smoothly, but it turns a bit sour if the contract isn't honoured and no money is forthcoming, specially if anyone else might be interested in porting to PPC...

There is no doubt that GPSoft should have taken all private measures to resolve the issue before going public, but we don't know that they haven't already done so, and maybe going public is the last chance saloon before terminating the contract altogether.

Thankfully, there is no product being sold on the market to make things worse. Otherwise, this story has all the alarming hallmarks of the Amiga Inc vs H&P saga.

 :-(

[bhoggett]

@DaveP

I still stand by my comments about using the public as judge and jury being unprofessional and all too damn frequently resorted to.

Like I said, under normal circumstances I'd agree with you, but the Amiga market is such that settling things in court is very rarely a viable option, and that is a fact many companies play on when deciding to break their contractual agreements.

I still think making a point of attacking GPSoft over this is an overreaction. AFAIK, this issue is the only one GPSoft have gone public over, whereas I'm pretty sure we can dredge up at least half-a-dozen occasions when Ben Hermans has done the very same thing.

Like I said before, I think there should be more public knowledge about the behaviour of companies in the Amiga market, not less. What would have happened had Bernie not gone public about his dispute with H&P? I'll tell you:

Amiga Inc would till be whistling for their money. H&P would still be selling the package - no doubt in larger quantities than they are doing now, as distributors would be none-the-wiser. Bernie would have still left the scene, and been blamed for walking out because of greed, disinterest etc. leaving poor H&P and Harald Frank to pick up the pieces.

That, in short, is what "keeping it quiet" tends to achieve, and why so many corrupt companies and individuals have come to dominate the market.

[bhoggett]

@MarkTime

Hyperion IS under Amiga's contract. In the end this is 'Amiga' OS 4. An Amiga, Inc. product that will not have DOPUS, that was pre-sold.

Not true. Hyperion are producing AOS4 under license. It will remain a Hyperion product until such a time as Amiga Inc buy it back from them. All immediate decisions about what is and what is not included with AOS4 are made exclusively by Hyperion and all the funding for the various contracts is done by Hyperion, who will retain those contracts until Amiga Inc purchase the whole AOS4 stuff from them, assuming that will ever happen.

AmigaOS 4 is a Hyperion product.

[bhoggett]

@Ketzer

Anyway, Im interested for what Hyperion would need to pay license fees _now_?

Probably because they insisted on buying an exclusive porting license to PPC.

It depends on the clauses in the contract. If the contract only stipulates payments based on numbers of units sold, it's fair to expect Hyperion to start paying only after they've started selling. OTOH, if the exclusive license involves a down payment either as full or partial renumeration for the contract, then it makes sense to expect that to be paid within a reasonable time frame after the contract is signed. Certainly I would think we are way past that "reasonable time frame" now. There is no reason why GPSoft should be expected to wait until Hyperion feel like doing some work on DOpus before being paid.

[bhoggett]

@MarkTime

In terms of your definitions you are correct. But you are being hard on the english language here (pardon me saying that as an american!)

Hard? I am being literal and accurate. What else is there?

I don't disagree with you about a technical statement that Hyperion is coding OS 4.

Hyperion owns AmigaOS4.  They needed licenses off Amiga Inc to use the old sources and to use the name, but Hyperion own the final product. There simply is no doubt about that.

But it is Amiga, Inc., and not anyone else, that made the contract with the community by pre-selling OS 4. Hyperion didn't do that. That was all Amiga, Inc.

One has to wonder at the wisdom of the community in giving them the money. Amiga Inc made a contract with the community, sure, but they will have to re-imburse Hyperion and/or the distributors, or maybe even the users directly when the product is on sale. Hyperion, and everyone else will tell you they themselves are not bound by any deal Amiga Inc made.

Sadly, this is irrelevant in terms of investment into actually producing OS4.

Maybe someone could argue that the I am Amiga Club, party pack coupons, and promises of free OS 4 that come with an AmigaOne, are not in fact pre-sales of OS 4.

But they sure as heck are...I'm not arguing this before a judge...this is a community board...PSSST they have been pre-selling OS 4 for many months now....

Nevermind what, who, where OS 4 is now....I could argue that the source code Hyperion owns the rights to, until Amiga buys it, isn't OS 4 either, until Amiga buys it....but never mind all that.

It is AmigaOS4, because Hyperion have a license to use that name for it.

Amiga, Inc. has been selling something called 'Amiga OS 4'

No, they've been selling some coupons.

they can pre-sell it, if it eventually is a product that they sell. But if that never happens at all, clearly wrong....if they sell something called OS 4, but its not the product everyone understood it to be....thats very dubious indeed.

What people think AmigaOS4 should be is not Amiga Inc's responsibility, it's that of the people themselves.

To put it simply: Amiga Inc have been pre-selling a product they expect to be on the market "soon". This doesn't have to mean it is their product, or that the responsibility for funding development lies with them.

Sure, people gave Amiga Inc a bunch of notes on the understanding that they would be getting X, Y and Z. Frankly, more fool them. I'm still amazed at the number of folks who fell for the scam - which is how I regard it until proven otherwise.

Bottom line is this: Amiga Inc have nothing to do with the DOpus issue. They never promised Hyperion they would fund the purchase, and I'm sure Hyperion will confirm that they never expected Amiga Inc to fund it either. This is purely and issue between Hyperion and GPSoft, and it should have been resolved months ago.

There are plenty of reasons to criticise Amiga Inc, and I'll be the first to point the accusing finger at them on any number of issues, but let's not make things up that simply aren't true.

[bhoggett]

@DaveP

Bernie, correct me if I am wrong went through a hell of a lot more than just a few emails that were not responded to before using the public to try and convict H+P and HF on his behalf.

Oh, the mails were responded to eventually, it's just that the the responses were unsatisfactory. However it's true that Bernie only went public after terminating his contract with H&P.

Having said that, the whole process took a helluva lot less time than the six months we're looking at in this case.

I think we will have to agree to disagree about the ethical values of the people involved here. IMHO, the only thing GPSoft have done wrong is to not permanently terminate Hyperion's contract before making the public statement. Of course, had they done so a positive resolution would have become impossible, and many people would have still blamed GPSoft for being greedy rather than accept any criticism of Hyperion.