Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek  (Read 9089 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mr_a500

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2004
  • Posts: 865
    • Show all replies
Re: The Day, Or Year, Firefox died
« on: June 07, 2009, 12:29:26 AM »
Argh! That linked page consistently freezes the version of Firefox I'm running on BeOS. I don't know what it's doing, but it kills it every time.

Ironically, I'm using BeOS because I think Linux desktop sucks. I tried about 7 different distros of Linux, but hated them all. Linux GUIs (Gnome, KDE) are so damn slow and jerky, they make even the bloatware Windows seem zippy. (and that's only part of the reason Linux desktop sucks)

Offline mr_a500

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2004
  • Posts: 865
    • Show all replies
Re: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2009, 02:31:47 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;509688
KDE 3.x was OK, but 4 is an abortion. Never had any issues with Gnome's performance though. Fast as fury on this machine and no slouch on the box at work, which is a single core P4 with Radeon X300.

If you want a window manager that's both extremely fast out of the box but at the same time highly customisable, then fvwm is for you. The initial desktop it gives you is very spartan and configuring it takes time, but it is the veritable Intuition of the linux world. It is fast even on 10 year old machines.

Thanks. I'll check out fvwm - but don't Linux applications need to be specifically compiled to use a certain GUI? I already ran into the nightmare of dependency hell and KDE-only applications. (Speaking of dependency hell - installing a simple frigging text editor installed over 1GB of libraries!! The text editor sucked too.)

As I said, GUI is only one reason I think desktop Linux sucks. I've had Linux crash on me many times (8 times just in one day!), I've had kernel panics and 6 times the install list got corrupted and I had to reinstall the entire damn OS. I could go on and on. And I thought Windows was bad...

(...preparing myself to get flamed by the Linux lovers...;))

Quote from: stefcep2;509690
What spec are you running BeOS on.  I thought you need an old single core machine with <128 meg ram

I'm running BeOS on a 866 Mhz PIII with 1 Gb RAM (PC I got free - I still refuse to buy a PC). BeOS can only handle 768 Mb RAM though, so it boots with a RAM limiter.

Offline mr_a500

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2004
  • Posts: 865
    • Show all replies
Re: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2009, 04:25:08 PM »
Quote from: Colani1200;509737
It's the same on the Amiga (i.e. MUI / Reaction applications) and on other platforms.
Yes, I know. My point was that if I wanted to use fvwm, I'd have to limit myself to applications compiled for fvwm (or command line). Since I'd never even heard of fvwm, it must not be that popular - meaning fewer available applications. Using the Amiga analogy, that is like limiting myself only to Amiga applications that use BGUI.
Quote from: Colani1200;509737
Well... installing a KDE app for a desktop other than KDE doesn't really make sense. Possible, but not optimal.
I was using a KDE desktop and the application was KDE! (on OpenSUSE 11) I can't remember what text editor it was, but it really REALLY sucked. All I wanted was a simple text editor. The few I found couldn't even compare to a 1989 Amiga editor... and that is pathetic. I'm positive Linux has some kick-ass editors somewhere, but all the ones in the depository (suppository?) sucked hard!

Not just that, but the reason I needed to find a text editor was that the supplied editor kept refusing to open files (permission crap - another pain in the ass) and didn't prompt me for a password. At least Gnome has an editor that prompts and eventually allows access. (and yes, I know I could go into a shell, cd to the directory and sudo every time)


Quote from: Colani1200;509737
I really wonder what distro that was...
It was Ubuntu 8.04 and 8.10. I had multiple partitions on multiple computers. Ubuntu 9.04 had lots of problems too. Even running one of the supplied screensavers could crash it consistently (couldn't even shut down using power button, had to pull plug!). I once had a program crash and it opened a crash report and when I clicked on it, it failed and said "The problem report is damaged" (psyche!) and told me to reboot.

But even that is nothing compared to the problems I had with the crap known as grub. You can quote me on this: "Grub is quite possibly the worst piece of shit ever programmed!".  What is the point of having multiple partitons as backup when the boot manager fails completely when just one is corrupt??

What else to hate... forced FSCK checks, manually editing things like xorg.conf to add monitor sync rates just to change screenmode or refresh rate, unbelievably long boot times, incredibly stupid directory structure which can't be changed, programs altering grub - screwing up manual edits, constant prompts for root password, etc, etc.....

I TRIED to like Linux... I really did. I really REALLY did. I really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really REALLY did. (But I don't.)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 04:37:44 PM by mr_a500 »
 

Offline mr_a500

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2004
  • Posts: 865
    • Show all replies
Re: The Day, Or Year, Information Died
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 01:39:49 AM »
Quote from: Colani1200;509802
Well, Linux is a multi user OS. And one that has a certain focus on security. You can't compare that to a toy like Windows.
Oh yes, security. How is Ubuntu secure? All I have to do is insert the live CD, mount a drive and have full access to all files. Yeah, all the sacrifices of having to sudo everything and enter root password for every damn thing really make up for that level of security.

(Also, is there really a need - in 2009 - for a desktop computer to be multi-user? Computers now are cheap enough for everyone to have their OWN computer. I think it's time to bring back the concept of the single user desktop OS - where user experience is top priority.)
Quote from: Colani1200;509802
Sounds like broken hardware to me. If you can't power your system off by pressing the power button for a few seconds then something is seriously wrong.
The thing that is seriously wrong is the whole concept of software controlled stateless buttons. The power button is software controlled (OS). If the software screws up (as in crash), the button doesn't work. Notice the setting in Ubuntu that asks what to do when the power button is pressed? (sleep, ask, shutdown) Most modern electronics have these stupid software controlled power buttons - where you press the switch and then IT decides what to do (and may refuse your request). I'd much rather be back in the days of big shiny switches - on means ON, off means OFF! NOW!
Quote from: Colani1200;509802
Nah, you just need to know how to use it. PS: It nicely boots Aros aswell ;-)
Why is it every time I complain about something, somebody says something like "you just need to learn how to use it"?? I know exactly how to use it. I've read manuals, web pages, endless forum help threads. I've installed GRUB about 50 times. (many different settings, multi-booting Windows, BeOS, BSD, Haiku...). I'll have to say this again, GRUB IS SHIT.


Quote from: Colani1200;509802
You need a usable /boot partition and a correct GRUB config
Think about what you said there, then think about what I said.

If the partition you install GRUB from gets corrupted, you will not be able to boot from ANY partiton. This totally defeats the entire purpose of having multiple boot partitons.

Quote from: Colani1200;509802
(BTW: you can edit the boot options on the fine by pressing 'e' and 'ctrl-x' after your changes.)
I know. That's one of the first things I learned. It doesn't help when GRUB won't even load.

Quote from: Colani1200;509802
Again I suspect bad or badly supported hardware (e.g. a monitor that has no / incorrect EDID output).
I got the same results on 4 different monitors - popular monitors from IBM and ViewSonic.

Quote from: Colani1200;509802
Are you REALLY really sure that your hardware wasn't broken? I just measured with a stop watch. My ~5 years old Toshiba notebook (Centrino 1.6) with Ubuntu 9.04 boots within 27 seconds (with fully encrypted hard disk!) to the login screen. Another 15 seconds to a fully working desktop.
No, I'm not REALLY really sure. I'm willing to accept that maybe something hardware related is screwed up. Ubuntu 9.04 took about 1 minute 30 seconds. 8.10 took a bit longer. 8.04 took anywhere from 1 minute 40 seconds to 2 minutes to fully working desktop (add 30 seconds to each for the regular FSCK). I consider all those times to be unbelievably long. BeOS (multiple partitions) on the same computer (which never crashed or has any of the problems I experienced in Linux) boots in around 6 seconds - fully working desktop.

If people like Linux, then that's fine and I'm happy for you. I would like to like Linux too, but unless there are radical changes in the way Linux works (and their entire concept of what makes a good OS), I'm not going to be happy using it.

Offline mr_a500

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2004
  • Posts: 865
    • Show all replies
Re: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 01:16:12 PM »
Quote from: Colani1200;509931
I think you just have to accept that some things work differently than on other systems you're used to. You had to learn how to operate those other systems in the past aswell. It's just that most people are not willing to learn again. (That doesn't specially go in your direction, I see that you already spent some time with it, but maybe it's still not quite enough).

Possibly... but then again, most people are not willing to eat shit either. I suppose I could learn to like eating shit if I just put some effort into that, but for some reason I don't think it's worth the effort. ;)

Quote
Come on, you don't know the ACPI power button? OK, I'll explain: If you press it shortly, you trigger a software shutdown. If you keep it pressed for a few seconds, it is supposed to do a hard poweroff like back in the days. If that doesn't work (even with a crashed OS), then something is wrong with your hardware.

Yes, yes... press and hold... press and hold (I've always hated the press and hold concept). Of course, it's possible that the button has a problem. The thing is, I've never had a problem shutting off BeOS. Why? BeOS doesn't support ACPI.