Amiga Workbench advantages over other OSes

[mr_a500]

The point of this thread is not to debate which is the best OS or babble mindlessly about an Amiga comeback. I want to hear what you think are great things about the Amiga Workbench that other operating systems still don't have in 2006 and wish they did. (no need to point out things Amiga doesn't have ;-) ) I'm more interested in hearing about specific things from a user perspective rather than "lack of bloat" and "doesn't suck like Windows" type statements.

Here are some things that I love about Workbench and I haven't found elsewhere:

Multiple screens: each application can have its own screen with different resolution/depth and fast flipping/dragging between them

Window depth: windows don't move to the front automatically when you click on them and they have depth gadgets to move to front or back (I LOVE this feature! Automatic click to front on other OSes makes me sick!)

Use or Save: unlike other operating systems, you can use current settings without saving them permanently or save them instantly and permanently - without waiting for "shutdown" for it to actually save (forget the Windows Apply/OK - both buttons do exactly the same thing - save at shutdown!)

Icon/Window Snapshot: unlike other operating systems, you can move icons and change window sizes without the change being permanent unless you specifically want to by snapshotting

Animated Icons: one image for normal, one for selected

All icons can be changed: separate info file for icons meaning every single icon can be changed

Leave out: icons can be left out on desktop without making a "shortcut"

Assigns: assign token to shorten long paths

No virtual memory: turn off computer instead of annoying shutdown (no constant HD swapping)

No keyboard/mouse buffering: actions not stored when system busy - avoids actions happening later when you don't want them (software dependent on Amiga, not OS - of Amiga programs, I think only IBrowse buffers - and I wish it didn't)

Windows not moved off screen: prevents "lost" windows, don't have to carefully move windows to avoid them being half off screen

Almost all characters can be used in filenames: only two characters can't be used - colon and slash (Windows can't even use question mark!!) even multiple "." can be used for elipses (try that on Windows)

Standard installer with readable text:  you can read exactly what the install will do, edit it if you want or install manually (with other OSes, you don't know and have to trust it not to trash your system)

Help key: yes this is hardware, not OS - but still, why does everybody else have F1 for Help? It seems pretty lame to me. (yes I know, for historical compatibility)

[mr_a500]

shift delete, shift cursor keys. Really annoys me when I'm not on amiga and I cant shift delete. Quick simple easy and very usefull

Yeah! I forgot about that one.

And Shift-Up for Pg-Up and Shift-Down for Pg-Dn. It's much better than reaching for the paging keys because you've usually already got your fingers on the arrow keys when reading pages.

[mr_a500]

i agree with most of your points except for virtual memory and disk cache stuff. shutdown isnt really that much of a hastle and the added performance way more than makes up for the few seconds you wait (if you do wait) for the system to shut down

Hmm, I didn't say anything about disk cache :-).

About the virtual memory - I developed a hatred for that using Windows 95, NT and XP at work over the years. On Win95, I had fun with "out of diskspace never-ending virtual swapping hell" a few times. On NT, shutdown regularly took 2 minutes and occasionally never shutdown and I had to just turn off after waiting a half hour. XP was faster, but still usually took over 1 minute - a major pain in the ass when you're in a hurry. Over the years I think I had around 7 harddrives replaced on my work computers because of corruption caused by failures when writing swap files (2 on XP).

I tried OSX a few times and shutdown was nice and fast. Maybe it's just Windows ;-).

Mmhh.. I dont see difference.

Yeah, that was one of my weaker points. Forget the "leave out" option then. ;-)

[mr_a500]

Ah, got it. :-)

[mr_a500]

Yes, I like the RAM disk and right-click for menu too. I would have mentioned the "menu at top of screen instead of on windows" as an advantage, but Mac has this too.

Autodetection of floppies is pretty, neat, although useless. B-) PC's can also do that, but no OS'es support it.

I don't think autodetection of floppies is useless - it's quite convenient actually. In WB, when asked to insert a floppy and you insert it, you don't have to click "OK" - it just knows it's there. In Windows, you had to click on a requester or in explorer press F5 to refresh. I didn't mention it because Mac has autodetection too and this thread is about Amiga-only advantages. :-)

[mr_a500]

Man... is there someone still using FLOPPIES in the year 2006? Everyone today in the real world is using USB memory sticks.

Geez.

What? It's 2006??? The last thing I remember was setting my time machine for 1989 and then...  ah hell, the damn thing must have malfunctioned again. ;-)

Actually I only use floppies to WHDinstall the odd demo that's only in ADF format or back up a few small important things. Notice how I didn't include floppy auto-detection as one of my "Amiga advantages".

No more Micro$oft Winblowz large blank rectangular random colour on display until the OS decides a screen refresh should happen... hmmm 30 seconds later maybe? whats the rush, its only the working screen area the user needs :-p

I hate a lot of things about Windows, but one of the things that annoys me most (after the registry, of course) is the priority Windows has for screen redraws. A 1989 33Mhz Amiga might be a bit slow at screen redraws now and then, but it is absolutely pathetic for a 2006 3Ghz Windows computer with monster graphics card to regularly leave the screen half-drawn while it goes and does something in the background!

[mr_a500]

For those who doubt my post, about Windows doing all this stuff don't make me post a 3 page reply with graphics as proof..

Uh, I doubt your post and would be pleased if you could post a 3 page reply. ;-)

I know there are hacks to add "always on top" gadgets, have a "virtual desktop" with multiple screens (same resolution/depth) and I'm sure there are fancy animated icon hacks. And of course you could disable virtual memory. (and watch the crashes)

But I'd love for you to point out how:

1. Each application can run on its own screen with different modes/depths with "fast" flipping and draging (none of that wait for monitor to painfully switch crap)

2. ALL settings in Windows can be Used or Saved instantly and permanently - see first post for detail (permanently means that they won't mysteriously change back to MS defaults!)

3. You can prevent windows from being moved off screen

4. All characters except colon and forward slash can be used in filenames (that includes backslash!)

5. All install files for Windows applications are in plain text (this is a tough one - if you can show me that, I'm impressed)


If you can't show me these exact points, then Windows can't do it and this thread isn't useless.

[mr_a500]

I also like the fact that AmigaOS uses volumes (instead of the mount points like UNIX does), and actual allows you to use NAMES for them.

Yes, I was going to add that to my list, but was unsure if other operating systems have it. Names for volumes is much better than the A: to Z: on Windows.

Window depth:

Oh my God... I HATE the way AmigaOS does it!

For the Amiga window depth to be really great, you need a good "Click to Front" program. Without this, it is a bit annoying trying to find the depth gadget if it is under another window. I like double-clicking a window to bring it to front, but single-clicking to make active (like for cut&paste between two windows).

If somebody knows of a piece of software for Windows or Mac that can do this exact thing, please post a link.

The big plus would be that there wouldn't be so many damn temp files all over the place. When I fix someone's computer, the first thing I do is delete the 300+MB of orphaned temp files in "%userprofile%/Local Settings/temp". I also hate it when temp files are actually working files. If a file is going to be open and locked, it should be in the same folder as the application, not in an unstable location, like a temp folder.

Exactly! I agree with you 100% on that one. I remember running out of disk space at work when I should have had plenty. I checked the many "temp" folders and I had 1Gb of temp files! The next annoying thing was trying to delete a block of files - if one file is in use, the delete stops instead of deleting all selected files NOT in use.

This reminds me of another "Amiga advantage": open files can be copied. In Windows if a file is open, it is locked and can't be copied.

I appreciate AmigaOS for its design principles, not for its technology. That's why I tell people I want a new OS that works like Workbench, not a refactored AmigaOS.

Yes, exactly! That is the whole point of this thread. I wanted to list the great design principles and concepts in the Amiga Workbench that should be in all modern OSes, but still aren't. It seems some people (not you Waccoon :-)) didn't read my first post carefully and think I'm saying that everyone in the world should be using a patched and hacked 1993 OS running on 80's hardware for all their business needs.

[mr_a500]

For the purposes of this thread Workbench = AmigaOS.

"AmigaOS" makes me have bad memories of 3.5/3.9 (when the term was introduced). I have always known the entire operating system as Workbench, so this is what I like to use. (yes, loadwb loads Workbench which is running on AmigaDOS)

[mr_a500]

Lamer wrote:
well I see that some ppl here don't know very well windows features or gfx cards features or

1-virtual memory can be disabled on windows but someone here point that no virtual memory is a workbench advantage

Please read carefully. I already said I know it can be disabled on Windows. But I dare you to run Windows without virtual memory and run all the applications you usually run - see how well that works. (crash!) This isn't one of my main points anyway - I know virtual memory can be useful if properly implemented.

3-surfing through screens is also possible on windows pressing ALT-TAB

Again, read carefully. I said "every application can run on its own screen". Example: can you open Word, Excel, Explorer each on its own screen with its own resolution? Can you drag those screens?? Is the flipping to different resolutions fast (less than 1/10 sec)??

4-(amigaos shutdown is faster) ?
I never shutdown my computer using windows buttons...that's is for lamer users
also I have disabled scandisk or checkdisk to not work after a bad shutdown
I see that lamer windows users still don't know that

You just try that at a large software consulting firm - see how far that gets you. My examples of shutdown problems were at work. Only a lamer wouldn't know that you can't install unapproved custom software or do custom configs on an office work computer.

5-the only adantege of amigaOS is that boot faster that any windows version

Please read carefully for other advantages listed.

[mr_a500]

srg86 wrote:
I don't see the point myself personally

Well, the thing I like about running each application on its own screen is that you can have say 10 applications running, all maximized, and still have the desktop clear for any other windows you want to open.

Yes, in Windows you've got the task bar and can switch that way or with task manager or minimize all to see desktop. But what if you get a popup requester in one application? In Windows, depending on the requester, you could be stuck until you answer the requester or some windows might not minimize. In Amiga, you could have requesters open in each application and still quickly flip between them. Not only that, but you can have images each on their own screen in their own resolution. I regularly select a bunch of images to display and quickly flip between them. In other OSes, images are in windows and it's awkward moving between them. But, maybe there are fancy image display programs I don't know about.

I hate this behavior peronality. I just want to grab a window and bring it to the front.

I know what you mean, but as I said before, you need a click to front program. Then you double-click to bring the window to front. When I have to copy text between two or more windows on Windows or Mac, it's a pain in the ass because I have to size or tile the windows so that they don't keep overlapping each other, blocking my access to the text I want to cut&paste. On Amiga, if I see text in a window under another window, I can copy it without the window coming to front and overlapping the window I want to paste in. (whew!)

[mr_a500]

AmiGR wrote:
Eh? Neither OK nor Apply do "save at shutdown" on Windows. Ok saves the settings while Apply, er, applies them until you close the preferences window or save them.

Believe me, I've spent a lot of time testing this so I know what I'm talking about here. Do a test for yourself. Open a Windows setting (Windows background for example). Make a change and click "Apply". Now click "Cancel". It should revert back to original because you clicked "Cancel" right? Wrong - but that's OK because it shouldn't have saved right? Wrong! It is saved (reboot Windows to find out). Clicking "OK" does EXACTLY the same thing - it only prevents you from having to click "Cancel" to exit the settings window.

Now for "saving at shutdown" - how do I know this? Test like this: make a settings change and click "OK". It should be saved right away if it doesn't save at shutdown right? Now turn off Windows or have a crash or something to prevent shutdown from occurring. When Windows starts again you'll find that your setting change is not there.

[mr_a500]

AmiGR wrote:
..the user shouldn't turn the machine off without a shutdown.

Yes I definitely agree with this, but I've had many occasions where I spent 20 minutes or more making lots of settings changes, only to have an unrelated application crash (many hours after the settings change) and cause the "blue screen of death" - meaning I had to make all those damn setting changes again!

After those wonderful experiences, I now reboot Windows after making lots of settings changes to make sure they actually ARE saved. (... until they slowly and mysteriously revert back to MS defaults!)

This brings me to yet another major "Amiga advantage": preferences/program settings are stored in only a one or two locations and can be easily backed up and restored. In Windows, settings are stored in the Registry and many different locations (10 or more!) and are impossible to back up and restore. There are some "hidden" backup programs but they only backup very few preferences. Backing up Registry keys is a nightmare. (don't debate me on this point - I have MAJOR experience attempting to backup Windows & program preferences!)

Waccoon wrote:
Why would you want to? Look at what Apple does with its virtual texture desktop. That's the direction Amiga should be heading. Scrolling screens and virtual workspaces are a snap to add to the system once you have that nice, scalable graphics engine working.

I already explained why in my response to srg86 (on page 2). But hey, if Apple has a better solution then that's great. I don't insist on doing everything the "Amiga way". If there's something better then I'll go for that. :-)

[mr_a500]

cv643d wrote:
Windows is a huge mess when you are trying to organize folders and programs.... I think Workbench was great in that you could organize your programs however you wanted it.

Yes! You know, I once tried to organize Windows programs. With a fresh Windows installation, I installed all programs on a second partition for applications in neatly organized folders like "Graphics", "Music", "Development", "Productivity", etc. instead of the default "C:\Program Files". It was an absolute disaster! Even though install files give you the option to select location to install, there are major problems if you don't use the default location. I ended up having to wipe the harddrive and reinstall Windows.

Windows is massively flawed. Theoretically, Windows is extremely customizable. But the reality is if you do customize settings, you will end up getting screwed. It seems that Microsoft and most software companies expect users to use the default settings (because most users do) and do not carefully test the impact that non-default settings will make on their software. I have had so many problems that I don't even bother trying to customize the default anymore. (I wrote detailed notes of every problem I encountered too - just to prevent me from going insane and heading to Redmond with a shotgun ;-) )