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Offline Fats

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Re: a golden age of Amiga
« on: February 07, 2012, 06:50:08 PM »
Quote from: Digiman;679714
Without a new generation of J. Miner and R.J.Mical or any of the excellent ideas from programmers like Dan Silva etc there can't ever be a new age of Amiga.


Even if J. Miner would be here now, he wouldn't be working on the next great desktop computer. Times are long passed that you can be earth changing in that product category. He would probably be working on the real first intelligent machine or something like that.

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Offline Fats

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Re: a golden age of Amiga
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 06:33:06 PM »
Quote from: Digiman;679740
What I meant about Jay Miner etc was a new generation of designers who designed a machine architecture radically different and superior to current desktop PC or Mac.


These things are happening: Arduino - PogoPlug - RepRap to name a few. All I wanted to say is that a.org is not the right place to look for that, and there is nothing wrong with that.

greets,
Staf.
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Offline Fats

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Re: a golden age of Amiga
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 06:46:24 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;680011
@Tripitaka

Now, I hinted before that there are some issues with memristors replacing RAM at the moment, but considering how new memristors are, I anticipate memristors will be used in RAM in the future, once these challenges are overcome.


Don't believe the hype. People in the microelectronics world are already searching for the Holly grail, e.g. the universal memory a long time. The previous candidate was MRAM or magnetic RAM but did not follow on the hype.
Maybe memristors is the next Holly grail but I find the chance small. Problem is that memristors are a kind of resistive memories. They depend on the change of the solid state of materials to get a change in resistance. I think this will always be more involved then putting a few electrons on a small capacitor which is the base for DRAM.
More less hype driven info is here

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Staf.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 09:53:29 AM by Fats »
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Offline Fats

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Re: a golden age of Amiga
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 06:47:52 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;680050

The function of present day FPGA devices is fixed at boot time, how do you intend to get around this? You may be able to get around it using multiple fast booting FPGAs (see article here: http://electronicdesign.com/article/digital/fpgas-boot-in-a-flash15649.aspx ), is that what you intended?


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Offline Fats

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Re: a golden age of Amiga
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2012, 08:56:15 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;680159
So, to paraphrase your main argument, you're saying "Because this earlier technology didn't live up to it's promise, I doubt this newer technology will live up to its promise either". Forgive me if I take such a notion with a grain of salt, I prefer to assess each individual technology on its own merits.


Maybe I am biased; I am already working for more than 15 years in the microelectronics research and development institute imec. Over those years I have seen several memory technologies passing by that claim to be the next universal memory, e.g. that should be able to be used both as non-volatile memory and as main RAM.
At imec there is already for a few years a project on ReRAM; I was even involved in a tape-out in this project. Only recently HP started to hype their memristors but as an insider I know there are still a lot of roadblocks to take.
The term 'holy grail' I think I also got as a description that was used in an older eejournal article on universal memory (it is a really good site and I advise anybody who is interested in the topic to follow it). I found it appropriate as you seemed to have fallen for the HP marketing/hype; but I did not in any way wanted to use it in a pejorative way to you.

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However, as you brought it up, let's take a look at the challenges that memristors face to be a viable replacement for DRAM. The two main issues are:

1. Memristor-based RAM would currently be slower than DRAM.
2. Need to increase the read-write lifecycles that can be achieved with memristors before it can replace DRAM.


You forget the most important one:
3. Density and cost (both are related as major cost for memory is how much silicon area it takes). Also the yield is driving the cost. If I put billions of ReRAM how many of them won't work.
And another one:
4. Power: how much energy is needed for a write operation.

It's these latter two that will decide if ReRAM/memristors can replace DRAM or not. Solving 1 and 2 are just the condition to get enough investment money to start tackling 3 and 4.

My personal opinion is that ReRAM is a possible good candidate for the next non-volatile memory, but then only if the prediction of the scaling stop for NAND flash is finally becoming reality. I don't think it will replace DRAM.

Quote

With all that said, memristor-based RAM is off topic for what is being proposed, it's the improvements to FPGAs that matter here. I hope we can get back on topic now.


Do you know the term 'analog computer' ? I think that is a direction where you want to go with your combination of memristors + FPGA. I am no expert in those as the research topic had already mostly died out before I entered university in 1990. I think the main reason they failed is that they are too hard to program. Debugging a sequential program in a low level or high level language is already hard enough. Doing it for a chip with hundreds or thousands of analog signals is I think something that the human brain hardly can grasp or tackle.

Another thing I want to mention is that there are already NVM based FPGAs ATM not based on ReRAM but based on Flash technology.

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Staf.
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Offline Fats

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Re: a golden age of Amiga
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2012, 09:07:01 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;680175
Partial reconfiguration is possible, but it's still externally driven (by software running on a CPU).


There is nothing stopping a FPGA partially reconfiguring itself. One of the roadblocks is that the FPGA manufacturers want to keep their bitstream format proprietary so you have to use their software to generate them. But I think this problem can be solved with some clever reverse engineering.

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Staf.
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Offline Fats

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Re: a golden age of Amiga
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2012, 09:11:10 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;680160
Interesting, thanks for the link. Could you help further by advising on the lowest cost FPGA that offers partial reconfiguration?


Unfortunately I am no expert on PCB board design etc; I learned about partial reconfiguration from a presentation from a Xilinx guy at my work. I'm afraid you'll have to go through the spec sheets of the Xilinx.

greets,
Staf.
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Offline Fats

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Re: a golden age of Amiga
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2012, 06:58:06 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;680274
I'm not going to derail this thread further by countering your full post (as I have more to discuss than just memristors), but would like to point out that someone at your company thinks memristor-based RAM is worth researching:
http://www2.imec.be/be_en/research/sub-22nm-cmos.html


I take it you work in a different department?


I can only quote from my previous post:
"My personal opinion is that ReRAM is a possible good candidate for the next non-volatile memory, but then only if the prediction of the scaling stop for NAND flash is finally becoming reality. I don't think it will replace DRAM."
I want to add that probably certain characteristics of ReRAM will find their niche market even if it won't replace FLASH NVM.

greets,
Staf.
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Offline Fats

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Re: a golden age of Amiga
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2012, 08:32:02 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;680419
Do you have any opinions on what has been discussed so far (other than the memristor stuff)?


Yes, I do think the Amiga community is now more enjoyable then some time ago but talking about a golden age of Amiga is a bridge too far IMHO.
:)

greets,
Staf.
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