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Author Topic: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane  (Read 7164 times)

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Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« on: December 02, 2017, 08:47:47 PM »
Many maybe know that I bought 2 PCBs from Phase5 for BPPCs.

I got them this easter. but never really done anything with them.
after Amiga32 I decided to finally move the components from my busted BPPC to a new PCB.

Did that..

but had an issue..  it seem that the boards COMPLETLY lacks the GND plane.

This is why the P5 boards are not in the market yet.
However. Phase5 refuses to do anything about this. as.. apparently I did broke the pcb..

So I made a video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYIj-92IVE&t
(YES camera is %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty  and it is after FB livefeed )

so.. this is what you can expect..

ADMINS:  if this break any rules.. I am sorry and please remove this.
but this is imortant before anyone does any prepayment.
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2017, 09:51:53 PM »
yes!  especially the UNTOUCHED one.  I CAREFULLY split the board in half and sanded off the GND plane and glued it together.
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2017, 11:02:21 PM »
but please remember I am the incompetent person here..

you know. the guy at Amiga32 that showed a CPU board with a booting 060 cpu.. :)
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2017, 01:02:42 AM »
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2017, 08:06:59 PM »
they cannot ever have built one..  as he "liked" the picture when I posted that I was starting to solder my board.. IF he had built them, he would know about the issue and tell.  so..  guess why we doesn't see anyting except empty boards?

my guiess:  he cannot solder a through hole resistor.. yet less those mach-chips on the bppc..  he maybe doesn't even have the equipment needed to program the chips. or.. EVEN the damn chips?
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2017, 08:28:15 PM »
nahhh..  as my video sjhow..  internal layers is there..

I have seen screenshots of the board so I would say a 8 layer board.  BUUUT! my guess is that he simply.. did not include the GND gerberfile when ordering.
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2017, 05:10:45 PM »
And also that means they do not have a single board with GND..
I mean.. how easy would it be to takea PCB and a multimeter and show?..  especially when he said he would have production started in November.

so..  unless I am proven wrong (of the facts that he doesn't have a single BPPC board with GND):  do NOT do any kind of prepayments.

My boards was still sold as tested.. and no GND. but they are old and could be a pre-production error.- (in that case he would send me new working pcbs as that was our deal)

Anyway..  history will show.. my guess is thar mr. Salvador will soon be in his next bankruptcy..   sad..  so sad..
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2017, 06:15:16 AM »
Quote from: gregthecanuck;833789
Hi Chucky -

The guy seems to have a reputation as a flake and yet you carried forward and spent money with him? And now you have a bad purchasing experience. Surprise?

What other outcome could have been expected? All the gnashing, videos, copies of email conversations, etc... is just a lot of drama.

This thread seems like a cry for attention on your part more than anything.

Feel free to flame me, but this is my knee-jerk opinion.



Well. He aparentlty had the data..  so I would't expect him to fail to produce the PCBs. just export the gerbers and.. presto.

also. remember there is a reason I told him that they must pass qualtycontrol and ship tracked.  so I had any possability to go back to him.

I never belived he would be able to produce a working card. (yet less the complete p5 line..  why even try?)


And.  well.  yes!  IF it would fail. I finally had real data to stop his madness. and when I was tealking to him and seen his talk it was more and more clear that he actually doesn't know %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! about this. So it was time to see if the board would ever work..   I wouldn't expect such a extreme fault as a missing layer..

but then also. we have now a full story how he would handle an issue with a custumer. any issue like a DOA?  bah!  got your money!  go away.

It was a risc I was taking.  so for me it is not really about the money. I can take it. but now we all know he is a fraud.
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2017, 06:16:57 AM »
Aaand I was really hoping to get this damn blown bppc to work..
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2017, 07:46:51 AM »
Thing is.  people asked if I was an employee of P5..

IF I was.. they would have booting version of every card provided the data was correct.  OK I cannot solder BGA.  But give me proper tools and a week and that BGA would sit ther like a boss :)
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2017, 06:06:11 PM »
you can say that it is basically a whole copperlayer for ground (- power)
so if you need a - power in your design (ground) you just put a via (hole with a conductive area in it) to fish up the ground where you need it..

in tyhis case, the via (hole) is there. but no layer to connect to.

so ICs get + power  but never -.   and to get something to work you need both + and -
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2017, 06:34:09 PM »
Quote from: Faerytale;833821
Was it a scam, or was it a good (newbie)try to actually sell working PCB´s?? Important question in the respect of LAW :)

Anyway, probably a couple of guys learned something form this :)


it is proof that he cannot do a PCB..  yet less a assembled board.

even less a complete P5 lineup!
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2017, 06:59:12 PM »
Quote from: kreciu;833823
Assuming that ALL new PCBs are bad is an error. Assuming that ALL future PCBs will be bad also is an error.

You decided to get PCBs and I think you should solve issue with the seller directly (if you can). At this point what I can tell you have bad PCB based on YOUR expertise.


By applying simple logic:  2 PCBs was wrong..  I contacted him about that.  IF he would have working PCBs it would be an easy thing to send 2..

and if he wanted be a cheap-ass and refuse. when I presented that video. it would be easy for him to show: looksie. he is wrong..

neither happend...  so basically:  all is %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.  and that is also the reason why the empty boards is all we have seen.

My guess is that he doesn't know how to export the files to gerbers.. and the 1260 he had at A32 also have no gnd plane.
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 06:10:14 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;833831
I can't remember the exact details, but wasn't there some way around this if the parts are for "hobby use", or something like that?



well.. then I guess it must be sold as DIY kits.
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 10:50:35 AM »
Quote from: Georg;833841
Yes, but the whole copper plane is not filled with copper, or is it (ie. it is not like a solid filled rectangle in a paint program)?

So the copper in the copper plane forms some islands/blobs or maybe better said some kind of trace maze. And I was wondering if on pcbs there is always just one single such trace maze/labyrinth  (where you can get from every possible point in the maze to every other possible point on the maze) or whether there can be multiple ones which are not connected by themselves (no way to get from a point on maze #1 to a point from maze #2 because they are not connected). And it's only the installation of some pcb component which later will causes the mazes to be bridged, so that they end up being connected.

stupid example: if you had a circuit with a lamp and a fuse on the negative side then as long as the circuit is unpopulated then it would look like the ground connection from DC In to lamp ground pin is missing.


well. more or less it IS a copperplate (with areas missing around vias (holes) that shuld not be connected to ground..   you do not bridge via other components (the lampexample) as then you put a lot of stress on that component.
However in the BPPC example, this is also not the design (bridge needed) as my video show: the old board with all components removed shows perfect groundplane where the new pcb show no signal whatsoever.

What you do in the cad sofrtware is to design a area, and tell it to fill this area totally.   but if a component is placed there (like a hole conneting other layers) then it automatically makes a small area without copper around that hole.

so .  either he simply forgot to send the gerberfile with the groundplane data, or when importting/exporting data between software (to move it to more modern software) this information did not come with it..

OR.  he never connected the vias (holes connecting different planes/layers) to GND, meaning the software simply removed the copper around those holes INSTEAD of actually letting it be there. connecting that pin to ground.


and well. as told. as haven't been able to send 2 new working PCBs or even showiung the world thath there is a GND on new boards. my guess is: THERE IS NONE!  and never was.   as it would not require much to show this.

if he show this in a week or 2.  well then it just shows that he made a new pcb order (propably a small one) based on my information.