News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License

[Chucky]

PARTS of the FPU!  is not the cpu.
aybe if EXACT the same parts as 68060 have..

and.. the vampirepeople have told that you get the vampire for what there is.  there IS no fpu now.. as the version you say.. is closed for team only and we never know if it of some odd reason gets scrapped..

[Chucky]

thing is that he is aprox 20 years too late..

so comparing to AMD and 64bit is poor..  as it was (is) in a time when it is developed... the amiga, 68k series etc died in the 90s..   we who are stupid enoufh to use those machines use it for nostalgic reasons. with 20+ year old software (with most lost sources) that will never be able to use all development anyway.

[Chucky]

Difference heer is that Gunnar more or less say that his product is thebest, no flaws. it is the ULTIMATE one..

however.  it might be pretty awesome.  but no it is not the ultimate one and when people asks about stuff we had for 20+ years.. the %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm starts.
it is all like a religious sect about a very VERY hyped product.  DO NOT SAY NO TO THE LEADER.

What i have the issue is like the thread:

* Compatible with 68040/68060 while it isn't. it sure looks like it.. but not compatible.

* it is closed..

* They are basically searching for partners.  but any partner should just accept and do not ASK. (as it might be off topic.. etc)

* you say: there is NO MMU! answer is: YES IT IS! but.. closed.. (so.. no MMU!)

and they let vampire V1 users in the cold when v2 was out..  V2 was released  you will get 080, the most compatible cpu,  AGA  and fpu.
then, suddenly. no fpu.  until someone made a sofwareeulation. now parts of it will be there. but not all.  as there is no space suddenly. (as it apparenlty is filled with stuff noone asked for)

all my stuff is open and free, just add it yourself. you do not need to ask.  maybe say what you want to add so we can agree of a method of implementation..  this is closed stuff.  then you really need to take the input

for my stuff.  well. do your changes, do a pullrequest and if it looks ok.. I will accept it.  if you do not accept my deny, do a fork..  done. problem solved

but my stuff sure ISN'T the greatest.. code is messy (as donemostly while drinking beers)  but can be changed by more or less anyone

As told many times: if this was a 68060 compatible solution (and also not a one man show).  damn I would close my eaglewindow on my left screen and redo all with that now..


remeber.. this ALL started as I just told that they should add MMU!  it ALL created this %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm.   DO NOT ASK FOR STUFF!

[Chucky]

Ah yes, first rule of the Apollo Cult...

yeah!  THAT you notice.. for sure!

Okay, you have any proof of said incompatibilities out side the tired FPU or MMU argument? It's striving to be fully compatible. the FPGA nature of the core allows updates to said core.

How about read in the threads here.. a 3.9BB4 setup that works on *ALL* amigas indpendent of cpus fails on vampire..  after working with it for long I just ditched it..  actually found my Vampire today looking through my scrap-box..

Is this an FPGA solution, are you doing processor design? or is it just some accelerator using the limited stock of existing processors that will likely be very scarce to source in the near future?

no I am not. but if it would be open. there would be some kind of community. always someone actually adding..  and there have been many request of JUST FPU and MMU they have been denied.  AND also users asking for it. threatend of blocking or even blocked on the forum.
it is a horrible dictatorship that destroys this product that could be the solution for the cpu-shortage there is.

Actually..  I do not know so many advanced users using vampires/080.   I know a lot of people using it in thir A600 for whdload.. they haven't even connected the HDMI cable. (same on A500..  as it adds a way of getting HD pretty nicly)

and oh!  people run sysinfo and doom/quake

but even if I know a lot of coders (ok mainly democoders!)  NONE of them use a 080.. and I met people at A32.  walking around vampirepeople saying to them "yeah it is nice" etc.  but when being alone from then.  "but..  no MMU why should I do programming wityout the tools I had for 20 years)

It is the CONSTANT attack of people asking for stuff that is so damn scary!  this thread is a perfect example of it.  YOU SHOULD NOT SAY ANYTHING BAD! YOU SHOULD NOT ASK! YOU OBEY!

and now searching partners with that attitude?

damn so sad that all nice stuff we have on the amiga fails of..  attitude or managment. (and as it always closed and the amiga HAD it with closed stuff)
 and then dies of it in the end...

[Chucky]

YES  you are right.. and THAT is why it is so damn sad that they do not listen..

this could be the best thuing there is.  hardware is totally AWESOME..

problem is the strange path they are taking, totally forgotten every damn issue we had whe there was the SLIGHTEST change in cpu or chipset register.

I mean. if it was ANY motorola cpu done perfect  AGA done exact and RTG and AHI ..   it would be so damn freaking awesome.

but trying to do a "new amiga" introducing new ways of software to fail.  is just so sad..  Sorry but noone will use their amiga as their main platform again.

AMMX etc etc will not be used as i would guess 90% of all software we use, the sources have been lost forever and cannot be re-written or recompiled.
or they need to be rewritten, but reember WITHOUT using the debuggingtools people are used to......)

new screenmodes and stuff in chipset later. NO softtware will support it. NONE.  NADA!  but with RTG we have software already that supports it.
not available in RTG API!.  well create a new API for it. let more peole add stuff that way. (Warp3D etc etc)

16 bit audio. same thing there.. NO software supports it..   AHI is the solution.


so if they just listen it would be an awesome product..  


so it is so sad.  it could be so, so awesome..   the vampire that is.

and this offer of licesing out for HW developers?  well.  they just say MMU and %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm starts here AND on a1k..  it is not accapted to ask about things.  HOW can you then start a cooperation when there are tension the first 10 minutes over a legit question!.

[Chucky]

(even IF apparently asking for a MMU in a cpu. in a thread of a cpu-replacement is ..  eh.. OFF TOPIC apparently)

[Chucky]

well.. not if they ban you asking for a function..  etc..


takes times. OH YES!  I know it does..  but then (shortend):

1. oh. FPU would be nice
2. NO!  NOONE USES IT!
3. Eh. I do?
4. BAN!

is the wrong way, instead of:

1. Oh FPU would be nice.
2. Does anyone use it?
3. yeah!  I do!
4. well.  if there is enough requests maybe..


so it is the attitude.. it is so sad. Gunnar might be a very intelligent person (and doing this. he must be)  but..  social and contact with its users..  well doesn't work)

I met Majsta etc at Amiga32.. we had a short talk. and he was nice to talk to.  and I think he understood my point.    it is the persons around, not listening that does the damage.

it can do so much damage being a big ego and not take input. you do not need to implement all.  but you do nto need to say that your product is the bestm if noone can even .. eh. use it?

[Chucky]

That is essentially the goal of the Gold 3 core update...

no.  they apparently changes stuff.. so not FULL AGA done exact!
done exact means ALL restrictions mustbe there, AND all bugs! as it might be used in.. well.  demos etc.

Honestly I was about to get a Furia when I saw information on the Vampire... the concept of writing code for AMMX and breaking ground a new 68000 architecture with 64-bit instructions had me intrigued.

I got my Vampire as I guessed it sould be the killerthing..  and I got a nice offer so yeah I take it now.  I will get the fpu etc later..

this however seems not to fully happen.. I guessed I could make an A500 an awesome AGA demomachine later.. but. .no.
and it should be so compatible.. it wasn't. it ended in yes.. it runs sysinfo nicly.. but.. nah. this doesn't even feel amiga. (and this comes from me using WINUAE mostly when coding)

SAGA uses RTG... it works just like a Picasso device... RTG software works fine without any tweaking on the Vampire.

well yes!  but they also call the AGA addons "SAGA" just to confuse even more.. and that will just introduce more issues.  

It's fully Paula compatible, and likely will have an AHI support, the team consists of people with driver writing experience.. not sure where the argument is.

no it isn't as they apparently added stuff. and.  apparntly via chipset..  sigh!  WHYYYY!..

Well it IS an awesome product, only people I hear complain about it are people that don't own one. I suppose I never experienced the Fast 68060 or PPC accelerated era of Amiga,  I just played games from floppy drives. The Vampire gives me something I never had, so it's awesome for me. As for the licensing issue, it's Gunnar's project, he hopes to have an ASIC created eventually that could reach more moderns speeds, I can see why he wants to protective of it, but still want to give something to the community, even if that community has people that feel threatened by it... so...

I own an V500 so I have tested it.  and.. it is not in my box of "well  crap pcbs" haven't even bothered to remove the CF adapter on it


if this was in the beginning of 2000 it would be aswesome.. now it is too late for the new cpustuff etc.

Would ANYONE accept that people did changes like this on the C64?  not if there is not "go64" mode   faster cpu for crunching etc maybe. (butthat is done on a PC today..)

Anyway.  it is time to stop..   vampire fanatics will never understand my point, I understand theirs.. but their hope will fail as the team apparntlty does not want the programmers to use their platform not suppling the possability of using their debugtools.

only difference with the PPC I got in my Amigas (both of them) is that the 080 doesn'tneed to switch to a different cpu and flushing caches etc but the new stuff will be there. unused and sad.

so number of software supporing the 080 stuff I guess will be aprox the same as the PPC. (and that is very low.  damn I should sell my CSPPC and BPPC while consuming space making you need to softwareemulate other stuff you MIGHT use..

same as 68040/68060 library. but THAT is bad..  FPU emulator is not 68040/68060.library then it is ok...  weird..

his project. sure.. yes!  true.. it IS!  if he want to do bananas shooting out the screen every 10th minutes. he can do that.   but if someone thinks that is a bad idea maybe not be angry of it.. especially when asking for cooperation..

[Chucky]

ok I mixed up people. AGAIN!..  this is my handicap.. so. sure.  put me in a odd situation.  used to it. move along..  nothing to see here...   me and faces %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ing never works..  thats it.  laugh about it? please do.  it is on me.  used to it...  




Anyway.. interesting how a simple thing as pointing out that things like a MMU that we are used to can fork to this..

and.. I see that many HW developers reject this.  and I know things JUST like the  MMU is one for the main reasons. and THIS thread is a good reason why.  but yeah..  better maybe be quiet..  fool more people into the hype. (if they DO know that they are buying something that can do more new incompabilities. FINE!  that's what I knew when I back in the days bought a new CPU card.. I was always early with them all (except 060 due to price))
but now. 20+ years later.. it is about preserving our old memories.

we STILL need that debuggingtools to get developers on the platform. and without the developers, platform is dead like the PPC.

demosceners will have no interest as they like to show off what they can do within the limits there is.. remove them and shadertoy.com is suddenly more intersting.

Anyway.. moderator: please.  remove this thread completley.  put in the first post..  I will stay out..


Some day. when I get time.  I will post my blogpost with more detailed info about pros (YES! there are!) and cons..

but..  repeat Iknow.  HW designers declined this generous offer.. think about why...

[Chucky]

ok sorry for mixing up!.   it is me and faces.  just never f... works.  but still I am doing that same %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ing thing EVERY FUC. TIME..  


it is halfwritten.

so!  serious: please anyone.  give me ANY arguement. (in some kind of private way)  for pros and cons of what YOU think..

I will do a calm (not forumwise.   ) argument.

and as I told:  I LOVE the hwardware. it is the implementation that I have issues with.  and the bad handling of the feedback.

anyway!.. I am out.

[Chucky]

good idea..  and maybe prep my vamp with it..

(but if it requires me to register. well this will not happen unless taking a copy from someone)

[Chucky]

Enforcer,  mungwall...

etc..

[Chucky]

except that you do not count compability in number of programs that work on it.. but functions used and why the program breaks.

and in this case the reason is: MMU is missing (or compatible one) and as they claim 68040/68060 compabilty..  those programs (functions)  should work.

[Chucky]

You've stated this since page 1.   How many more pages do you need?   I'd love to start deleting posts again :-)

Well still people asks for examples?  isn't it strange? TECHNICALLY I never mentioned the software by name.. only by function.

[Chucky]

well as WinUAE does not have 080 emulation.....
but yeah!  I do 98% of my coding in uae..   true..