News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License

[Chucky]

this started a quite interesting talk on A1k.

and.. there was HW Desogners more or less telling that "nope not interested"

Thing is.. that there are many like me that are purists.  and 080 is not our cup of tea.

I got asked if I wanted to add this to the A3660.  answer is simply: NO

2 reasons:

1. there would be just stupid to add 080 to a 040/60 board with all busmastering etc.  better to do it from scratch
2. 080 is..   well nothing I want to support.. so not from me.

for those who like the 080.. it might be fun. yes.  but the support from hw designers seems so far very low.

(yah!  I might be wrong.. but I do not think so)

[Chucky]

but people have issues with missing MMU and the (so far) lacking of FPU

[Chucky]

For me compatible means it acts like that cpu.  and 080 is not compatible as it doesn't act like 040 OR the 060..  it acts like a mashup of all 68k cpus.   but doesn't behave like any of them. And this is my biggest issue.

(and the fact it lacks both MMU and FPU so far)

[Chucky]

HW Designer-lite maybe  as I did "design" the A3660  PCB

[Chucky]

and noncompatible MMU  while it states it IS compatible with the 040/060?

Strange..  is it compoatible or not?

Anyway..  no MMU stuff means no debuggingtools  meaning programmers avoid it meaning no software maning: no use of the bells and whistles..


FPGA is nice..and I would love it.. IF 060..

[Chucky]

Well  so far FPU is emulated via software..  and I find that VERY ironic (as vampirepeople say it is more compatible not needing the 040/060 lib)

and no.. it is not about "boosting postcount" or so.. not at all actually..


And well I posted on the A1k thread about my opinion..  and I am not alone of retro-computing.

[Chucky]

so far the FPU that is "hwbased" is only for vampireteam.. not for the public.

and it still relies on software.. meaning it is EXACTLTY as the 040/060 library.
so  if the 040/060 is nonocompatible due to this.  vampire IS with that exact same logic noncompatible.

And well.  as I told in the A1k thread:  for me as a demoscener. the 080 is as interesting as yesterdays newspaper..  as I have no interest whatsoever of AMMX and stuff..  I want 060..

so I would welcome a 060 FPGA core any day..  we need it as 060s are gettong harder to get (saying that as I got my next batch of 21 rev6 060s yesterday

[Chucky]

Trigger for me is:

"_FREE_ 68080 CORE that is
compatible with the 68040/68060 "

when it ISN'T!

It is maybe 68k-series compatible..  but it for sure is NOT 040/060 compatible.

as then it would have the FPU and MMU!..  it doesn't  

it might be 68EC040 and 68EC060 compatible.  but when I read 68040/060 I read the full deal    and this is important.

[Chucky]

and I am not alone..  especially not in the demoscene..

if it was 060..  I would buy 10 vampires today..  and I would love to be involved in any hw project using that FPGA core.

080.. no. not at all.    as it just simply doesn't do it for me.

And reading at the A1k thread etc I know I am far from alone.  and this is something that the vampire/apolloteam must understand.  we want our beta-max VCRs..  we do not want Bluray..   we use retromachines.

And what I understand.. Jens told in the A1k thread: not interested.
just of this reason.

it however was a nice reach-out from Gunnar.  absolutley..  but he and the vampire team takes critics waaay to personal.

[Chucky]

and it is reactions like this:  taking it personal..

I just want the lie about being 68040/68060 compatible,  it can fool people who thinks that they will get that.   and when they try to run enforcer/mungwall etc.. it will fail..

It is called false marketing..
And belive me.  there are always some vampireperson coming to discussionthreads about 040/060 etc that "no. the future is vampire"  while  sorry to say:it isn't..

the vampire is a neat way to boost your A600/500 and I recomend it to anyone wanting to use their old machines as a whdload machine..  it will be perfect for it..

for me as a demoscener: no..
for a replacement of 060: in most cases..   no  as if you want to go highend. why choose a sorry to say: crippled cpu?

I read at the a1k forum and it is interesting to see how Gunnar just misses the whole point when people ask about MMU etc.  telling that his MMU is better.  and it might be.  but with no software, noone cares.  but programmers are used to have their debuggingtools why suddenly be without them?  and wit no programmers.. who would use the new nifty functions?

and repeating myself?  well yes.  as there is always some vampireperson repeating that "vampire IS the thing everyone wants" but still completly ignores that there are many of us thinking the opposite.

I have told many times in different forums etc: if vampire was actually compatible (meaning ACTING like the real deal) I would buy 10.. (instead of that one I have. somewhere)

[Chucky]

Andbuy 020/030 cards from jens?  Nahh I did the reverseengineering of the 3640 and made the 060 for it as I hope the open community will do its magic..


and stuff IS happening.   so I am pretty sure we soon will have open 040/060 solutions.. but YES getting the cpus might be an issue.

[Chucky]

The people who are going to need/use Enforcer/Mungwall will know what features Apollo offers, belive me. 99% of the users dont even know know what it is, let alone use it.... And to be in your style I will repeat myself too, Apollo debugging tools are in the making.

issue is..people do not want to use different tools for Apollo and different for others.. they want to use the same tool.

Yeah those people should be banned like the people intentionally derailing every Vampire thread.... This thread isnt about what you like or dont like, its about the offer Gunnar has made for the HW designers. I dont see the reason you are posting here at all. Why should any1 care what you are interested in or not ? If you said, "I am making a new Amiga Turbocard but i dont want to use Apollo core", that I would understand.

Banning is the wrong way.  throwing out people is "managment by fear" and is totally worthless.  it is the worst way of dealing with people with a different opinion.

Wrong, anyone with any knowledge would recommend a 020 or 030 card with some ram for a whdload machine....

well yes.  but you get a nice package with the vampire.. you get memory, you get RTG (and supposly AGA later) instead of trying to get that separate for those old machines.   that's why. and is also the biggest reason why most get vampire..  you smack in one card and get it all.. (even if many never even use the RTG!

Performace wise, 080 is faster than any 060, integer AND floating point.... So obviously you are spreading misinformation here....

no debuggingtools.  and a halfworking FPU.   == crippled for me as a demoscener.

Maybe you should set the example and stop. WE all got the point, you dont want a Vampire.

And I want the vampirepeople using the word "Compatible" more carefully..
AND listen to people with other opinions. and NOT block people.. it is the wrong way..  as people say: I want MMU that works as it is on the old machines.  and there are a lot of them:  TAKE THE HINT!  we do not care if that solution is 100000 times better..

same with the FPU!   "not needed" (or even "not wanted")  until someone makes a fpu-emulator.. then suddenly it is needed..
listen to critics: take input..  and do not take it personal. and then suddenly they will get a awesome products that have stuff for everyone.

[Chucky]

If they listened to every chap out here they would never got this far. They have their plan and they work on it, accept it or dont. You keep on babbling about what you want or dont want, their success has shown what the most people want. You already have what you want, your old 060.... And you are constantly derailing this thread, none of your replies are on topic, that should be sanctioned, if you feel the need to force your opinion on Apollo core, there are other threads out there you could find that are more related.

NONE of topic?  this is very much ON topic.  and YES me and MANY OTHERS want our old 060s..  if I want a new machine. I take a PC..  I can get a laptop for the same price as a vampire that runs browsers 1000 times better, runs videos etc.  and actually runs UAE pretty damn decent.

this topic is to use a 080 core as a 060 CPU-replacement due to the shortage. When I try to say that sorry bit it isn't  many of us does not think it is good enough. (even if 080 is pretty awesome..  but hey again  new?  that laptop?)

IF it was 060 compatible then it would be a AWESOME idea that I would love to hop on etc.

I want to preserve my nostalgic machine.  and so is the most who wants the 060 and highend-machines. (not all! no!)

and this IS a reachout of highend users, then input from highendusers should be taken.

but as always. when saying "nah. this would be awesome" it is always taken way too damn personal..

at Amiga32 I told parts of the team: make it 060 and AGA 100% and the rest as RTG/AHI    I would LOVE it!  it would be the perfect solution for me and my Amiga-needs. (and many with me)

videos, browising .. well that I use my PC, phone etc.   Quake and doom is not interesting for me.


But vampire-people takes things way way WAY too personal..

[Chucky]

For me. incompabilities started from the beginning..  I have a 3.1 and 3.9 template with a lot of software installed.. working on 68000-68060 and ALL amigas..  but on Vampire.. it all failed.  had to do a some tweaks to get it boot and be stable.   And I brought it to the datastorm demoparty..  we checked it out.  and  "ok this is for checking sysinfo and doom" meehh  lets have some beers instead..

and there it is.  since that I haven't tried my Vampire..  oh yes I did try it on my Amy.. did not boot. but this is most likly not the vampires fault but some soldererror on the amy.

However..  it was not "compatible" for me. it did not behave like any amiga... so that's why I think it is not compatible.

and for me as demoscener: fpu is important for highend-demos.

[Chucky]

And there are ONE more issue here  and it is an important one:

You rely on ONE person..  as trhe core is closed..

if a bus runs over gunnar or so.   you are in a situation where you are screwed...


and at work being a consultant:  NEVER EVER put your stuff into something being dependent of one person.