Pegasos Gothenburg Show 2002 announced

[samface]

I'm sorry but I still don't see the relevance of the Pegasos on an Amiga website.

Perhaps we should advertise the AmigaOne on Microsoft.com? What, you don't think the Microsoft.com webmaster would agree to it? Why?

[samface]

Sure, I guss it's about the freedom of opinion.

But then, my opinion is that the Pegasos is a parasite on the Amiga market and only does damage to the *real* attempt to revive the Amiga. I know I'm not alone whith these thoughts which makes this whole thing a conflict of interests. Any idea how we solve this conflict?

My suggestion is try doing it like the professionals, like the webmaster of Microsoft.com would have done. It's simple logic, two competing products trying to reach the very same market segment is bound to cause a conflict of interest. Let's accept each other's different interests and go seperate ways, no need to fight over a few bread crumbs when the loaf of bread lies next to you.

Besides, I'm also interested in Playstation2 games, should I post the latest news from Sony here as well?

[samface]

Seehund:

1. AmigaOS4 and the AmigaOne has *nothing* to do with the POP standard. Eyetech's AmigaOne authorized product is based on a POP design but that does NOT mean that the AmigaOne standard specified by Amiga Inc. has anything to do with the POP standard.

2. Lindows runs Windows applications but does that make it a Windows OS? No. Just because MorphOS runs classic Amiga applications through emulation, does that make it an Amiga OS? Not a chance.

3. The Amiga always was about one computer and one OS from the very same manufacturer and developer. Unless you're one of their partners, you're not allowed to refer to your product as an Amiga product, period. You want to compete? Fine, get your own trademark.

[samface]

Tickly:

Ignoring the conflict won't make it go away...

[samface]

Advertising the Pegasos and announcing Pegasos shows is hardly the same thing as reporting security flaws in the "enemy's" product, now is it?

[samface]

He, he... This will be almost too easy... >:-)

a) AmigaOS has nothing to do with the POP standard? No sh!t, here I was thinking that AmigaOS was hardware! I had even planned to buy a new case for my AmigaOS. Thanks for straightening that out.

Smartass. Of course I was referring to the fact that just because AmigaOS supports one certain piece of hardware that is *based* on a POP design, that doesn't mean AmigaOS is an OS made for running POP hardware. You do know what I'm saying but ignore it simply because it doesn't fit your agenda, you're making it very obvious by these kind of comments.

b) The mobo Eyetech is buying has everything to do with POP.

They bought a design and modified it on order to suit their purposes, the fact that it is originally a POP design is irrelevant and still doesn't turn the AmigaOS into a POP OS.

c) There is no hardware standard defined by Amiga Inc. Zico? Hah! "Ummm, it's like... like a computer, y'know. CPUs and stuff. And a next generation Matrox card, that's mighty important."

Pathetic. Of course I wasn't refering to the Zico specification. I was talking about their AmigaOne licensing scheme which you so dissapprove of so much that you don't care about the consequences of your actions.

No, MorphOS is not AmigaOS. Did I say that? I said that it runs AmigaOS apps, and this is one of the reasons to why AmigaOS users could be interested in news about the Pegasos, as that happens to run MorphOS.

Can you see the difference between AmigaOS and *an* Amiga OS? Yet another pathetic attempt to make me look stupid by implying that I'm saying something completely different... *sigh*

Yes the Amiga came from one company that made both the hardware and the software, and now there will be no more Amiga computers. Get over it and be happy that AmigaOS has finally thrown away its custom-made hardware shackles that dragged it down into computer oblivion. (It's just too damn bad that the shackles are being put back again, but not for technical reasons this time.)

No but for compatibility and hardware partnership reasons, you know those boring little details every OS developer must go through in order to be a complete platform instead of just software...

What, are there Evil People Out There illegally labelling their hardware "Amiga" without anyone but you knowing about it? Have you told Amiga Inc. about this?

Amiga Inc. already knows and September the 1st is getting closer...

An offensive comparison for the "trademarkists" maybe, but totally unscientifically I think there are more people in the community who are interested in news about desktop PPC hardware and associated OSs, using The Trademark or not, than there are people interested in news about a "content layer" using The Trademark for handheld devices. Just a wild guess, based on that the community consists of people running desktop computers, not handheld devices.

Good thing the new Amiga will be a combination of both then since that will satisfy everyone, right? :-P

[samface]

Sigh... I'm not even going to argue with your speculations regarding Amiga Inc.'s intentions for AmigaOS because it's nothing but pure FUD. Why would you have a petition about the new Amiga if there won't be one? Why do you claim that there won't be any AmigaDE for the AmigaOS? Why do you keep saying things that only an employee of Amiga Inc. could possibly know, such as the AmigaOS5/DE beeing just a vague concept? What you can't see doesn't exist, right? Now that would be a conclusion based on nothing but Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

But anyway, Pegasos is not AmigaOS compatible hardware, MorphOS is not an Amiga hardware compatible OS, Amiga Inc. themselves is preparing a lawsuit against them, why does it "belong" on Amiga news sites and why would I not consider them an enemy of Amiga? Because they can run Amiga applications through emulation? Because two companies fighting over a couple of thousands of users instead of cooperating is a good thing?

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion just like everybody else. I would just appreciate if you stopped spreading your opinions and speculations as facts and I would also appreciate that if you feel the need to convince me about something, atleast give me real arguments for it instead of simply repeating the same statement over and over. You're starting to sound like some kind of propaganda minister or something...

[samface]

No, they buy ready-made boards. I don't even want to think of the end-customer price if that hadn't been the case! Eyetech has nothing to do with any hardware design on a scale larger than little solderjobs like a PS/2 mouse adapter and an IDE-splitter for Amigas. And who says AmigaOS or any other OS is a "POP OS"? AmigaOS will run on whatever potentially compatible hardware there is that becomes licensed.

Stop making up lies about the AmigaOne, from Eyetech's AmigaOne FAQ:

Is the AmigaOneG3-SE the same as the MAI Teron Cx? No. During the period leading up to the OS4 development agreement being signed we evaluated the Articia S northbridge chip for possible use in a redesigned AmigaOne. We concluded that it was the most cost-effective chip for the design and proceeded to draw up some new specifications for an uprated, more cost-effectively engineered AmigaOne, the AmigaOneG3-SE. Clearly using the Articia S instead of Escena's custom northbridge design meant that both the schematic design and the PCB layout would be entirely new. MAI logic are a chipset manufacturer, not a PPC motherboard manufacturer, but they had commissioned a low volume, high cost evaluation board, the Teron Cx, to help sell their chipsets. The Teron Cx was never designed to, or intended to, go into volume production. We therefore asked them if they could recommend a design company who was familiar with using the Articia S in PPC motherboard design. They recommended the same (Far Eastern) company that designed their Teron Cx evaluation board.

The new Eyetech AmigaOne design obviously shares a lot of commonality with the Teron Cx board, but more than a cursory glance at the specifications (ATA speed, integrated ethernet, custom firmware, number of active PCI/AGP slots etc) - and the price - of both boards should be enough to convince most people that they really are different designs.

However if you remain unconvinced you are of course perfectly welcome to purchase the Teron Cx evaluation board. It costs $3900, misses many features of the AmigaOneG3-SE, and won't run OS4.

That's official.

There is no need for hardware "partnerships", and compatibility is up to the software developer to ensure. And yes, by all means, sell licensed hardware, but it's embarrassingly stupid to make compulsory licensing and bundling a requirement to have your software running on a piece of hardware. There is no "complete platform" anymore. There is AmigaOS and there is hardware.

Amiga Inc. wants to create a new platform they call the AmigaOne. They want to be able to provide their customers with a complete product, not just the software. They do this by cooperating with hardware manufacturers and *anyone* is free to apply for an AmigaOne distribution license, hardware manufacturers as well as dealers. They think that this will bring the customer a certain quality experience adding more value to the name "Amiga". They think that this is the best way of marketing their product. The only question is; why do you think you know better, you got a Ph.D. in the subject or something?

[samface]

But, it seems to me, you personally don't like Pegasos/MorphOS nor do you want them to succeed, as you see them depriving Amiga, Inc. of users, developers and mindshare.

That may be true but that's not my argument for why I don't consider them to be fair competition. Apple's PPC computers are competition, even the x86 market is competition, but the Pegasos is different. You see, they claim to be the next generation of a product line they don't own nor have the rights for. Anyone can produce cars and compete on the car market but not just anyone can make a volvo car. See the difference?

[samface]

Samface said:

Advertising the Pegasos and announcing Pegasos shows is hardly the same thing as reporting security flaws in the "enemy's" product, now is it?

So non-amiga news is OK, as long as it informs us about your so-called "enemy", right?

Ehhh... That would be exactly the opposite of what I said. Let's try it again but somewhat simplified this time:

Advertising and announcing shows is hardly the same thing as reporting security flaws, now is it?

So, Pegasos is "the enemy", so you want to hear about it on amiga.org, right?

Only if it was at the same level as the news postings about Microsoft. You know, security flaws, etc.

Just because YOU PERSONALLY don't want to hear anything about Pegasos/MOS, you think its irrelevant to Amiga users?

Didn't you read my previos post? You know, the one where I say:

I know I'm not alone whith these thoughts which makes this whole thing a conflict of interests.

[samface]

Thats a completely stupid comparison! You don't need to stick to a brand of car to drive on the same roads! If you drive a Volvo now, but you want a newer car, you don't have to stick with Volvo, you can buy any car and drive it on the same roads.

The IT market is the road, computer brands are the different kind of car brands. Of course they may ride the same roads but you as a manufacturer are still not allowed to pursue the product line of another company, period.

[samface]

The fact is that PEGASOS AND MORPHOS NEWS ARE RELATED TO THE AMIGA, AND PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE "MOS/AOS" FENCE (AND THOSE ON IT) WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON!

But, you still haven't told me why it's related to the Amiga? Or, should I just accept your opinion as is without motive simple because you say so?

[samface]

Nothing you have said has really backed up your position that it is irrelevant to Amiga users! Really nothing! It just seems to me that you are scared of MOS and the Pegasos and what they represent, so you want to hide it under the carpet!

I quote myself once more:

But anyway, Pegasos is not AmigaOS compatible hardware, MorphOS is not an Amiga hardware compatible OS, Amiga Inc. themselves is preparing a lawsuit against them, why does it "belong" on Amiga news sites and why would I not consider them an enemy of Amiga? Because they can run Amiga applications through emulation? Because two companies fighting over a couple of thousands of users instead of cooperating is a good thing?

I'm not scared of MorphOS or the Pegasos because I think they will win, I'm scared of the damage they are doing to the entire Amiga market as a whole, regardless of the outcome in the war between them and Amiga Inc.

Also, please note that this is not about me evangelizing Amiga Inc., it's about me critisizing bPlan and the MorphOS team's way of acting like a parasite on the Amiga market instead of acknowledging themselves as an alternative platform to the Amiga.

[samface]

MorphOS runs Amiga applications. Pegasos runs MorphOS. Therefore, Pegasos with MorphOS runs Amiga applications. Therefore, Pegasos and MorphOS are technologies that are relevant to Amiga users.

And then you say that I don't have anything for why it would be irrelevant to Amiga users? Listen and listen carefully, WinUAE has better support for Amiga applications than MorphOS since it only runs retargetable Amiga applications. Ontop of that, it doesn't run Amiga applications natively in any way, it emulates. MorphOS will also not run AmigaOS4 applications and MorphOS applications won't run on any AmigaOS. To sum things up:

MorphOS is an OS that doesn't run on Amiga hardware, MorphOS applications won't run on AmigaOS and emulation is required in order for it to run Amiga applications. Per definition that makes it a non Amiga compatible (or even related) OS.

Pegasos is hardware not capable of running AmigaOS natively which makes it easy to define as non Amiga hardware.

So, tell me; why would this be more Amiga relevant than WinUAE?

[samface]

I find WinUAE to be OK though, since they are not marketing their product as a next generation Amiga. You see, that is my biggest problem with bPlan and their methods. They've created an alternative platform which they claim to be an Amiga simply because it has built in 68k emulation and reverse engineered AmigaOS API's. To me, this is simply the worst kind of IP theft you can do and all these news about them in the Amiga land is playing right into their hands. It's just so sad to see how the Amiga community has become such an easy victim for this kind of marketing scam...