A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls

[Tomas]

@Transition
Finally! This is something i have been waiting for. I have been avoiding this forum alot because some certain people here troll and flame certain "camps" no matter what.
I hope this will finally lead to all OS alternative being discussed without having to get see people spread fud and lies about my OS/platform of choice.
I am all ok for constructive criticism and discussion though.

[Tomas]

This is what I think the difference is between trolling and expressing an opinion:


Original-Poster: This is a new Amiga related project I am working on. It has feature X and it can also do feature Y.

Positive-person: Great work! I'm glad you have taken the time to start this project which is something that various Amiga users may find a use for and enjoy!

Not-a-troll: Looks okay, can you add feature Z as well?

Another-non-troll: Have you considered compiling it for my Amiga-like OS of choice? I would use it if you do. Keep up the good work!

Troll: I have no use for this (because I don't use an Amiga-like system at all), so why are you bothering to make it?

Another-Troll: Pfft, I can do that on my iPhone.

Troll-Feeder: Where can I download the iPhone version from?



The trolls are pretty consistent, they will continue to post cheeky or cruel remarks at any chance they get. They prefer to start a fight and back out of it while others join in and continue it, or take a stab when they feel there's no chance of retaliation. I have no problem with cowards like this being removed from the forum.

I'm sure the moderators don't regard passionate, opinionated Amiga users who like to debate about their favorite platform as trolls. I think a lot of people are getting upset about something that's not going to affect them in any negative way, and in fact it could be just what we need to get more Amiga-related discussion happening on this site. I know for a fact, from chatting to hundreds of Amiga users around the world on IRC, MSN and through forum private messages, that there are many people who would post a lot more often about Amiga-related projects and ideas if they weren't afraid of having their thread derailed by someone whose only intent is to crush their spirit and stop them from wanting to go any further with their idea.

Exactly!

[Tomas]

It is a pitty. I enjoy heated discussions, reading, and being a part of them.
Common sense depends on the eye of the beholder, and the same goes to the interpretation and missinterpretation of trolling.

In this moments of genuine threats to freedom of expression (you can call them whatever you please), is that I remember how I really miss that guy called Wayne, and that Amiga online forum he had.

Who said that constructive discussions arent allowed??
It is clearly some people here who enjoy trolling as it is the same names showing up in every thread. Take for example when X1000+ custom mouse/keyboard was first showed. Some even managed to dig up shit about the keyboard/mouse claiming trevor is a evil dude who is only doing this to rip off naive OS4.x fanboys.

And it is no longer a real discussion anymore when the trolls here have driven away nearly every OS4.x user to other sites.
I think this change in moderation will lead to more users coming back which will be good for all our OS alternatives.
We should just work more together instead of fighting. I myself would not mind owning a MOS box either and have nothing against either people who choose aros, mos, classic or whatever over 4.x.

[Tomas]

Say what?

That's some nice historical revisionism you have going there.

See the rest of us remember Mikey_C whining like a prissy bitch when Wayne refused to disallow MorphOS and AROS discussion on here. This in turn led to him taking the OS4 fanbois and other assorted ditto heads over to the newly created AW.net - the exodus.

Remind me again, how did that work out for you folks anyway?

Oh yes that's right, he aided in the commission of the single largest fraud this community has ever had perpetrated against it. Then he enacted yet another exodus to amigans.net when yet again those evil people with their own, non mikey approved viewpoints showed up and started asking some hard questions.

What the heck are you talking about?? I clearly said i want equal discussions of all platform, just not mindless fud or trolling. I disagree as much with Mikey_C opinionw on moderation as much as you. I think all Amiga/amiga like oses should be treated equally.

And again i have to make it clear that i have absolutely nothing against constructive critism or discussion. There are things i dont agree about in the OS4.x world as well even though it is my OS of choice at the moment.

Oh and i stay away from Amigans as well because i dont like the moderation there. So i clearly dont want this site to become like another amigans clone or how amigaworld was in the past.

[Tomas]

What you said was that the reason for the OS4 fanboys leaving was due to trolling.

This is patently untrue. That is all.

You'll note I didn't comment on the rest of your post. There is a good reason for that - there was nothing in it that warranted comment that hadn't already been brought up. Likewise with your response, beyond this bit, there isn't anything needing to be discussed.

And there you go with name calling again. But anyways why does other members at amigaworld express that they feel the same way as me?? They used to be regulars at amiga.org, but started avoiding this forum more and more as the trolling developed.
Now most active users here are mainly either classic users, mos users and aros users.

And cant we please stop with the name calling? Why call someone a fanboy because they choose AmigaOS4.x over for example MOS?
Most OS4.x users dont have anything against the alternative. It is a few select fews that got problem with the alternatives just like how it is a few select few who keeps trolling every 4.x related threads on this forum.

[Tomas]

And there you go trying to change the subject again. Damn it really must be chafing you to try to dodge again.

What makes you think given that it didn't work the first time, that it'd work this time?

Your claim regarding the reason the OS4 fanboys left is wrong and no amount of bawwwing about my use of the word fanboy is going to change that.



Still doesn't make your claim any more accurate though.

Okay.. Show me that i am wrong then. And of course i am going to respond when you call people who use OS4.1 for a fanboy. Do you scream fanboys at people who use linux or windows as well? Why cant you respect that i choose OS4.x?

I have been active on this forum for a decade now and been a reguluar guest visitior since beginning as well. I have seen the changes with my own eyes, i have seen people who have expressed those very same views as me and seen how the OS4 users have slowly shifted more towards sites like amigaworld.

[Tomas]

Who are these "some"? It would be fair to specify who you're accusing of trolling.

Surely you're able to name them considering you thought it was important enough to pick this thread as an example of bad behavior.

(I asked this once already, I bet you missed my first question)

I dont think that would be a wise idea when i am got attacked for using that thread as example in first place.
I dont have a photographic memory, dont feel like going so low to mention any names and dont feel like digging for such threads.
It was just one simple example out of many.

Again i wonder why we cant just put the past behind us and stop the damn namecalling.
I dont see why a person should be attacked for their choice of OS or fud and negativity being spread in nearly every single post about OS4.x.

[Tomas]

I've read the threads of course. I didn't find the answer from them. Thus I have to ask Tomas directly.

It has to go both ways. If someone is being accused of trolling there has to be a way for the accused to defend oneself.

I am not accusing any individuals about anything. I just provided a example of what i define as trolling.
It wasnt just one individual either...

[Tomas]

@the_leander
This is the last post from you that i will bother to respond to. I dont want to waste more time on people who act so childish.

I believe you have that backwards - show us where we're right.

You forget, just as you were here from the beginning, so too were we.

Huh? How can i prove something like that? I just stated my own observations and what other OS4 users have expressed earlier.
But i guess you are suggesting i am lying now?
Can you explain why there are so few OS4.x users here and why most hang out in amigaworld or at amigans these days?

Lets see, on occasion, depending on the situation, yes I'll call fanboy, regardless of the hardware or OS being evangelised. I don't care that you use OS4 any more than I care about Piru using MorphOS or runequester linux or arkhan use windows. So long as it works for you fantastic. I'm not however going to give you special consideration based on your choice of OS.

But yet you pretty much called me and other OS4 users a fanboy without even considering that alot of us might also be interested in alternative oses and even use other platforms as main system.
I myself have been looking recently for a mac system so that i can also run MOS, i have a linux box, a windows laptop, mac ibook, classic amiga systems and a sam running 4.1. How can i be a OS4 fanboy when i even trying to get hold of a MOS system?
Yes, there are fanboys in every "camp", but those are few in minority.
And i never asked for any special consideration. All i want is the baseless trolling to stop as it drives away people from this site. I am not sure which "camp" you are in, but would you like it if every thread about your platorm was filled with baseless negativity and fud from people who have not even used said OS?
There is huge difference between constructive criticism and people filling every thread with fud.

As have I. And I watched whilst both the red and blue camp ripped each other to pieces during 03-04. I watched Mikey_C lead the exodus to AW when Wayne refused to silence the other side. The blues moved more toward Morphzone leaving this place to be a more or less neutral territory mainly catering for classic and AROS. With the worst offenders from both sides in their respective sites gone this place actually prospered.

Why do you consantly keep bringing up the past and Mikey_C? Is it not time to leave the past behind us like most mature users have already done? It is people like you that are the reason why there is still conflicts in this community.

[Tomas]

It was you who brought those threads up. So I wonder, why did you?

I don't see any blatant trolling in those threads. Neither can I see anyone calling Trevor evil.

If you throw such accusations in the air you better be prepared to back them up with facts. If you don't you could be accused of trolling.

Did you not read my reply?? I provided an example on what i think is going over the line, so that you could see what i meant by trolling. I would not have had a problem if a person said that the keyboard was maybe a bit too price for him/her or that he/she did not like design.
I do however have a problem when people accuse people like trevor for using this keyboard as a way to ripoff OS4.x "fanboys"

You must be really blind if you dont think that it would be trolling to suggest that Trevor is ripping off people on purpose.

I was warned to not bring up such stuff in this thread, so it would not be a good idea to dig up those examples.

[Tomas]

@piru
Like i said, i dont know who said that. I dont know exactly what the thread was named and i dont think it would be a good idea for me to provide names even if i could dig it up.
It was in a thread about the show in beligum i think when the keyboard and systems was first shown.
I cant promise you will find the word evil there though It was more the tone and context that got me to include that word. And like i said, it wasnt just one guy.

But cant we just put this to rest now?? I regret already mentioning that thread even though i am still standing by my opinion that it was pure trolling.

Also dont get me wrong... I am not blaming any side or "camp" here as there are plenty of such trolls on the red side as well.

[Tomas]

You lot seem determined to make me lock this thread :-/

I for one am done discussing this.