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Author Topic: Who wants to purchase A.org?  (Read 33586 times)

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Offline Wayne

Re: Who wants to purchase A.org?
« on: August 20, 2009, 07:04:37 PM »
I'm staying out of this thread, save to say that the way normal corporations work is;

Investors buy a certain percentage of the total amount of available shares (in this case, 10,000).  The highest x number of share owners sit on the "Board of Directors".

That Board then elects, or hires a person to run the company and gives that person complete control of what is, or isn't done in the day-to-day operations.  The only control the board would have over the day-to-day director (aka webmaster in this case) would be the ability to collectively vote to replace said webmaster at certain intervals if he pisses off too many people.

Investors can sell their shares, but cannot sell more shares than they own (obviously).  The Board, should it decide to raise capital, could create new shares, but would need to accept that more shares = less % ownership for them (unless they bought the shares that is).

I have an idea of who amongst us would make (IMHO) the best day-to-day webmaster, but I'm *not* involved in this, unless someone specifically (and privately) asks my opinion.

As for the site, there are currently three modes of income which pay for the monthly costs, so no investor would be out of pocket there.

1) The donations which should continue
2) The Yahoo adverts (very, very little money, but it makes up for the months when donations fall short)
3) Site memberships.  So far, 99% of those came in April/May for one year, meaning that there's virtually no income from that until next year.   Any current memberships were put towards paying the costs of the vB upgrade and any additional modules (such as vBCMS, links engine, etc) that we bought to get the current functionality.

The total of which usually equals about $40 to $60 per month on average.  Yahoo ads pay off once the $100 shelf is reached, meaning it pays out $100 about every 3 to 4 months.

Any income from the project is usually set aside to build an operating budget for the project itself (reinvesting in the business) until such time that a percentage of the profits begins being divided up between the investors as a dividend.

Someone who buys the site, who isn't banned from Google Adverts could probably increase the income potential of the site substantially.

Again though, I'm not involved in this thread, I'm just outlining a few things for you guys to think about.

Wayne
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Offline Wayne

Re: Who wants to purchase A.org?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 01:54:15 AM »
Quote from: JJ;520281
Karlos any idea how many people here have taken out a year subs, and how much people generally donate over a year.

Just thinking out loud.
26
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Offline Wayne

Re: Who wants to purchase A.org?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 02:25:15 PM »
Quote from: Tumbleweed;520401
I've just been made redundant and have some money coming as a result. I'm willing to pledge $1000 or more depending on how things are structured.

Weed
Weed,

By "made redundant" do you mean "fired" as the Americans would put it, or is that some other culturalism?   I really don't want anyone throwing their life out on a limb for this.  Especially if you're unemployed..

Wayne
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Offline Wayne

Re: Who wants to purchase A.org?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 03:55:16 PM »
Quote from: arnljot;520413
@Wayne

To my understanding, purchasers of this site gets the following:

1) Google revenue
2) Members revenue (donations and membership)
3) Site and content (software and intelectual property)
4) Amiga.org brand and rights.

That's fairly simple to grasp.

Correct.

Quote
Earlier you have stated that Amiga.org is the only Amiga site around with written permission from the old Commodore Amiga to use the Amiga name.

What else does this permission give? Rights to use logos to brand the site? What about Amiga Org Merchandise?
Several years ago, I found a hardcopy reply from a letter I had written to Commodore leaders at the time stating simply that they "have no objection to my formation of Amiga.org as a web site to support the Commodore Amiga community".

Several other Commodore engineers at the time (Mike Sinz, Dave Haynie, etc) also echoed the "that sounds very cool" sentiment when we had met with them at the Commodore Dev meetings, but on that, there was nothing in writing.

As to whether or not I could find said hard copy letter today, that I cannot guarantee.  Frankly, it's been so many years ago, I don't even remember who signed it, but the gist was that we (NASAU) had Commodore's implied approval to start the site to support their community.

In regards to merchandising, as you're aware, AI and I have gone through this several times.  I hold the copyright on the current Amiga.org logo, first use, April 26th, 1995 as witnessed by the web archives.  That being said, according to a lawyer I once consulted, since none of the individual parts match any registered logo from Amiga Inc, the copyright I claim is valid, as an artistic piece since none of the individual parts are exact matches to the now non-existing Commodore trademarks.

Let me be very clear.  I'm no lawyer.  I never continued to pursue the marketing of stuff simply because I didn't want the hassle of having to prove all of this in a court of law in another state.  Amiga.org is after all operated at a non-profit level (not that we're a non-profit, we just don't make money from it) and Amiga Inc loves to pay lawyers rather than develop products.

What you do with that fact is entirely up to you, but from my perspective, since Amiga.org;

1) predates everyone BUT Commodore
2) does NOT operate in bad faith against the current owners
3) Has had written approval from everyone from Commodore to Bill McEwen (circa 2000) to operate over the years those things should be in the clear.

We just do not step on their toes and while we try to support the community, we don't go out of our way to support their competition and they leave us alone.

Considering my history with Bill McEwen and group, it would be a prime opportunity for the new and more enthusiastic owner to develop a good working relationship with Amiga Inc.  

In the end, regardless of how you feel about AI or their history, they are in fact the current "mother company" for the Amiga, so I'd hope whomever takes the captain's chair doesn't go out of their way to tick them off.

For example, I saw Bill Buck floating around here yesterday before I killed his post and banned him.  Under no circumstances would I ever willingly or knowingly sell to, or otherwise facilitate the sale of Amiga.org to Genesi or more specifically BBRV.  

That goes beyond my personal hatred for him.  

If he wants to pay me 25k (the 10k, plus the 10k he owes me, plus 5k for destroying my life and marriage) I'll sell it to him and let him take his chances defending the sale against AI, but again, I would never put the site in such a situation knowingly.

In short, while not mandatory, it would be imperative to any prospective buyer to take steps on your own to develop a relationship with Amiga Inc.

Wayne
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Offline Wayne

Re: Who wants to purchase A.org?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 04:38:14 PM »
@Hessu,

I do sincerely appreciate the kind words and the vote of confidence.  I understand your hesitation to subscribe as well, but moreso than money, I want to make sure that whomever takes over this site continues it.  Not as a porn site or whatever else, but as it sits now.

Hopefully you'll be of better mind in the future to join up after the dust settles.

Wayne
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Offline Wayne

Re: Who wants to purchase A.org?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 07:40:55 PM »
On a more polite note, let me stress that if you want to kill the site, making sure we have no more bandwidth available in a given month is the fastest way to do it.

NO BOTS OR LEECHES WILL BE TOLERATED.

This site isn't going anywhere.  How many times do I need to say it?

FYI I just manually banned 4 different networks which -- over the last 24 hours -- had each pulled over 900 megabytes worth of bandwidth off the site.

In order to keep us from running out of bandwidth, I will continually monitor for excessive usage and ban IP ranges accordingly.

If you can't reach the site, so sorry.  You were warned.
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Offline Wayne

Re: Who wants to purchase A.org?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 08:21:09 PM »
Quote from: Tension;520455
To clarify... Someone is setting up false accounts?  Can you find out who it is?
No,  it's not an account-level thing.  Some people who're convinced they have to steal the site while they can are just setting up and running "leech every page" bots, aka offline browsers to grab every single page ever posted on the site, which both taxes the processor (making the site slower for everyone) and drains our allotment of bandwidth from the hosting provider for the month.

Wayne
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Offline Wayne

Re: Who wants to purchase A.org?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2009, 10:25:22 PM »
Hi guys,

Over the past three days, I have been very overwhelmed with the support shown by our members regarding the potential sale of Amiga.org... I am literally humbled to know that there are some of you who will go to great lengths to preserve this great site for the future. It proves to me what an incredible community this always has been.

That being said, I'm very happy to informally announce I have received an offer from a person I trust with the future of this site. He, his partners, and I have come to a tentative agreement regarding the sale and subsequent transfer of Amiga.org.

Once we iron out all the particulars and a contract is signed, there will be a 3-month transition period to follow during which time absolutely nothing about the site itself should change.  

All of our current moderators will remain (should they choose to do so), only my successor will need to be chosen by the new owners, and I've made my recommendation to the purchaser as to who I personally think would be the best person for the job.

As I promised when this drama began, absolutely nothing about this site will change in the foreseeable future, save for one staff change. Both I, and the potential owners are in complete agreement on that core ideal.

Amiga.org has always, and will always exist to support the Amiga community as best as we possibly can and I will make absolutely sure that you are all kept in the loop as to any changes, as soon as they occur.

Even though I'm not going anywhere right now, I am honored by your remarkable support, and will always be grateful to each of you for the chance to provide Amiga.org to the community for all these years.
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Offline Wayne

Re: Who wants to purchase A.org?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2009, 11:10:03 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;520490
@Wayne

There is one question I think is quite important. Once you transfer ownership of the site, you will stay on as a member, right?

The place would not be quite the same otherwise.
I will be around, but after the transition period, will assume an advisory role only.  Speak when spoken too and all that.

Who knows?  Once I don't have to work so hard keeping things running day-to-day, I may actually get back into the Amiga...  :)

Wayne
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