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Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« on: July 13, 2010, 06:00:04 PM »
I've been in fairly frequent contact with the owner of Commodore USA regarding the possibility of having AROS pre-installed on their machines, which he is quite open to. In fact he is quite open to all sorts of Commodore fan suggestions, and if things progress, will place an emphasis on opening things up to community involvement wherever possible and bringing back as many aspects and features of the original machines as possible. His desire is for Commodore to provide specialty computers by fans for fans. But a lot of plans are on hold UNTIL things are sorted out regarding the trademark.

Of course there are no PUBLIC documents available that show that Commodore USA can use the Commodore trademark legally. I am sufficiently convinced that their usage of the trademark is legal pending negotiations for a long term license. This agreement is an internal business matter, as it should be, and not for public consumption. There is a disclaimer in the small text on the Commodore USA website which will have to suffice in terms of a public explanation of what is going on.

Throughout our correspondence Barry has been quite open regarding the negotiations, and I can tell you that they are proceeding. If this was a football game, I would say that they are in extra time.

Commodore Gaming is just a licensee and not the OWNER of the Commodore trademarks, even though they seem to have represented themselves in that way to many people, which has led to a lot of misinformed speculation regarding trademark legality by the gadget press.

I am not surprised that people think Commodore USA's machines will run OS4, for all the free advertising Hyperion is getting on that site.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 07:00:08 PM by BigBenAussie »
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 06:31:13 PM »
@morcar
BTW I have a Commodore Phoenix Basic, which I am very happy with. It's entirely silver with black keys and really looks much better in the flesh than it does on the website. It kinda feels like it just fell off a spaceship and is quite sleek sitting on my desk (a bit of an Amiga fantasy in looks). And of course everyone's favourite joke is that you have to stick the Commodore logo sticker on yourself, which was only the case for a few weeks, not now. The keyboard feels quite sturdy, and the keyboard placement actually makes a lot of sense after you use if for a while.

The machine currently only comes with Ubuntu. I also have it triple booting Windows, Ubuntu and AROS from a graphical grub2 BURG menu which I think is kinda cool in a geeky way. They all boot incredibly quickly in around 10 or so seconds and with the boot screen menu coming up practically instantly. It's a pretty quick machine for my usage pattern. I haven't really tried a modern game on it though as I do my gaming on consoles, but I imagine it will be adequate but not stellar. It isn't aimed at gamers. For a lark, if gaming does prove to be crap on these machines, and forgive me for not rushing out and buying a current game to try, but I might install one of those new mini-PCI ION based graphic cards that are coming out soon. I'd need to swap out the wifi taking up that slot now though, although I do have a USB wi-fi dongle I could use.
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2010, 11:28:54 AM »
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Until Barry gets a licence sorted. Steer well clear.
Oh yeah, because if Commodore USA lose the temporary right to use the Commodore trademark, the_leander will come to your house and strip the Commodore sticker off your Phoenix. ;-)
So whatever you do, don't give him your address okay. ;-)
Honestly, just because someone goes through a divorce doesn't necessarily mean marriage is bad for everyone. Get a grip.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:40:56 AM by BigBenAussie »
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2010, 12:02:50 PM »
@the_leander

You seem to think the product and support suddenly disappears overnight because Barry can't stick a Commodore label on it.
He actually intends to keep selling and supporting these machines even if he has to resort to labeling it a Barrydore. :-D
If the Commodore negotiations go sour the only thing affected may be expansion plans.

BTW I am not Barry. Through our correspondence and a few chats, I've come to know Barry as a straight up nice bloke, who doesn't deserve all the allegations of dishonesty you are making. You really don't know what you are talking about.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 12:33:58 PM by BigBenAussie »
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2010, 12:03:39 PM »
@the_leander

Throughout my correspondence with Barry Altman, the owner of Commodore USA, I have brought up many of the concerns expressed on this forum and have had these absolutely and conclusively quelled. I am in the unfortunate situation of knowing the real state of things, but due to their confidential nature not being able to divulge information as proof to you. This dilemma of actually knowing that what is being said is factually incorrect compells me to attempt to set the record straight, to right the wrongs and injustice of your accusations, in a more vehement fashion than I would ordinarily.

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Then you are an even bigger tool than I took you for. If you require a licence, then until you have one, you are operating illegally. This isn't rocket science.
The name calling is uncalled for. You don't think I asked these sorts of questions?
I have personally seen the e-mails between the various parties that have extended the negotiation period and the usage of the trademark from the TRUE Commodore trademark owners. This was shown to me in confidence, and to my knowledge Barry has been compliant with the licensor requests.
No, this is not rocket science. That you cannot fathom that temporary licensing deals can be struck between two or more parties, that have nothing at all to do with you, without advising you first, is really mind blowing. They've been selling these things for 3 months or so and it's been all over the gadget press. I can assure you that the trademark owners know all about it. are excited about it, and are getting royalties, but probably have no official website where they can acknowledge that the negotiations are actually taking place to your satisfaction. Unfortunately, it is entirely up to them to do so to put your little conspiracy theory to rest. It's not like the Commodore trademark owner cares what YOU think right now. There'll be info shared once the negotions are concluded. This is just the way business is done.
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Citation needed. Now.

Because what you just said amounts to an accusation of criminal fraud.

Choose your next words very carefully sir.
Barry, like a lot of people, assumed that Commodore Gaming owned the Commodore trademark and even began negotiations with them. It was then discovered that they were not the actual OWNERS of the trademark and didn't have any rights they could extend. Make of that what you will, whether it was an honest mistake or not. Regardless, Barry is now in negotiations with the TRUE owners of the trademark as I have mentioned repeatedly. It is not for me to edify you on who these people are, however it is public knowledge.

The fact of the matter, sir, is that you don't know what you are talking about, which is quite understandable, as you do not have the information I have at hand, and my dilemma is that I can't share it with you. Expecting confidential information between two business entities to be splattered all over the internet is unrealistic I am afraid. Forums promote speculation and these sorts of wild accusations are expected and part of the territory, and that is all that I am seeing. You can take me at my word or not, it is what it is. I've been an avid forum member for around 7 or more years, and as a long time Commodore and Amiga fan have been advising Commodore USA's owner regarding this Amiga scene as any fan would. On these forums I have something to share and talk about that I am as excited about as any other fan thing I've heard about over the last 10 years. That some of you don't share my sense of excitement about these developments is fine. To each his own. That a Commodore entity could actually provide something tangible from a fan perspective is a great thing in my books, even if these particular products are not attractive to you.
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2010, 12:11:21 PM »
@halvliter'n
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How many hard-drives can you put in it, is it possible to upgrade the GPU, CPU and RAM. How many PCI slots are there?
Does it have any expansion opportunities, or is it just something new unnecessary clutter which will be stowed away or thrown in the garbage after a little while.
BTW the schematic, and the user manual are available on the website.
The machine, in its enclosure, obviously lends itself to as little in terms of expandibility as a Mac-mini would. You can upgrade RAM and the HD, and there is a mini-PCIe slot you could potentially repurpose. Upgrading the CPU is about as likely as any other PC motherboard. It is what it is. If you think a fully functional computer with these current specs are going to become garbage and clutter, it is really a matter for you to determine.  The rapid pace of hardware development means that all machines have a degree of obsolescense built in. I would not dream of trying to use my A1000 for my daily tasks today for instance. This is a modern Commodore branded machine that is useful *today* in a form factor that screams Commodore. I personally don't envision throwing out my Commodore Phoenix until I get my own personal holodeck. ;-)
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2010, 12:15:23 PM »
@persia

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The address is a furniture store.
Heaven forbid that Commodore USA's owner Barry Altman actually runs what seems like a successful business. Were you expecting a letter box drop? ;-)

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It's a PC.
Which I think is actually a plus. Why relegate yourself to fringe hardware?

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They claim to be in negotiations with a Dutch company that owns the Commodore name.
Yep, and they are. I have seen e-mails to that affect, and if anyone stoops to the absurdity of claiming what I have seen is fake there really is no hope for you. Take me at my word or not.

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They are *not* in anyway shape or form related to the Commodore we knew and loved.
After 17 years how could they be? It doesn't disposess them of selling Commodore branded machines for Commodore fans by Commodore fans. Does Sam Tramiel himself have to own it to be related?

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They are pricey for the specs they have.
Yep, it's a specialty machine. If the brand, and the form factor mean nothing to you, don't buy it. I find it attractive and I know, from what I've heard of sales, other people do to.

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The owner of "Commodore USA" went to the plants making various PCs and negotiated unbranded versions so that he could stick the Commodore labels on himself.
Yep, it beats spending a quarter of a million or more developing hardware from scratch that will be out of date by the time it comes to market.

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You will be far better off putting together your own box and throwing a Commodore label on it.
In your opinion, sure. We'll have to agree to disagree. In my mind it is about as silly as you telling someone to buy a Google device and slap an Apple sticker on it to make it an iPhone. But go ahead if that floats your boat.

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Actually you'll have one advantage of printing your own labels. Your machine will be legal since you aren't selling someone else's brand, just putting a label on a computer for personal use!
And there you go making an allegation that something is illegal when it is actually quite kosher. If my repeated assurances are not enough to quell this concern of yours, then short of business agreements becoming public, nothing will. When Commodore USA finally succeeds or fails to obtain the license I am sure you'll be hearing a lot from all parties.

BTW the Commodore labels are beautiful. They look as though they are encased in glass. I'm really annoyed they aren't displayed prominently on the site actually. Something you print off yourself on your own printer just doesn't compare in terms of quality I'm afraid, but have at it, if it floats your boat.
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2010, 12:17:25 PM »
@KTThunder
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They look pretty cool, but you have to have at least two cables connected right? Power and video?
I'd run Aros on it...
Yep, that's right. It has one DVI and one VGA, and I have one of each connected to each monitor. An inexpensive adapter can be purchased from most electronic stores if you need to change the VGA to DVI.

There's a power brick, but at least the power button is on the keyboard and not on the power brick, and the cabling distance is decent. :-D
Yeah, I've been stuffing around with AROS quite a bit lately and the experience is good, but it could be better with official hardware support, which will hopefully be sorted once all this trademark uncertainty is done with. Then Commodore USA will be free to both gather investors and make investments that would further appeal to the Commodore fan base.
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2010, 12:22:22 PM »
@the_leander
Fine. Don't believe me.
Any docs I've seen are confidential. Live with it.
You cannot show me docs to negate what I am saying either.
I'll have to leave you to your ignorance I suppose.
Just attempting to inject some truth in here, and you keep knocking it. Oh well.
I will not be partaking in any further discussion....(I broke my rule)
There really is no more to say.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 12:48:34 PM by BigBenAussie »
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2010, 06:52:57 PM »
@persia
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No wires across my lounge room floor
No one would suggest you would use a Commodore Phoenix for your lounge room, it is a desktop computer.
The Commodore Invictus which has wireless HDMI is better suited for the lounge room. ;-)
It would not require anything in the cabinet nor would you need to worry about purchasing wireless peripherals and a HDMI cable.
Signing off.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 07:19:25 PM by BigBenAussie »
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Commodore Phoenix questions
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 08:24:58 PM »
You don't seem to understand the significance of a period/full stop in sentences do you.
Twisting my sentences is just silly. You know precisely what I meant and just want to stir the pot. His accusations of wrong doing are not only baseless but slanderous without evidence. Besides that, if you actually read what I've been saying, it's not a matter of me telling you I won't, it is a matter of me telling you I CAN'T. I can't divulge that information as much as I would like to, I can only tell you what I have observed. He said prove it...and I have told you I can't provide you with evidence due to confidentiality reasons. That's just too bad. I don't understand all the skepticism and right now I really don't care. Goodnight.