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Author Topic: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.  (Read 12761 times)

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Offline Hattig

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« on: December 28, 2010, 11:52:13 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;602285
But let's face facts guys. Amiga video is out of date.


It's 2010 Iggy, of course something released in 1992 is going to be out of date.

This thread is totally stupid.
 

Offline Hattig

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2010, 11:58:13 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;602296

Oh, and btw, your attack on emulation? I remember you positively responding on the Natami. Hate too disappoint you (or ciontradict Thomas) but FPGAs ARE emulating hardware (so its no more a real Amiga than Amiga forever).


No they are not. They are a re-implementation of the hardware, rather than software emulating the hardware running on an underlying OS and hardware that can't allow perfect emulation. Many people are interested by FPGAArcade and Natami, not because they think they will be up-to-date computers but because they will allow them to continue their Amiga hobby.

This thread is just set up because Franko actually responded to you in the other thread, and you didn't like it and you're having a stroppy hissy fit.
 

Offline Hattig

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 12:50:07 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;602404
BTW - An FPGA is a programmable gate array. everytime you start it you have to re-load the software that allows it to emulate the target hardware. So, no, the Natami is not a reimplementation of the Amiga (unless your willing to concede that that can be done via software).


The 'software' is hardware description language. It deals with electrical signals and circuits - "on a rising signal, do XYZ", etc.

It compiles to a logic circuit (or how to configure the FPGA's circuitry to behave - in hardware - as the logic circuits described). You can compile the VHDL into silicon itself, use that to create an ASIC, and there you have your native hardware. The FPGA doesn't RUN the compiled VHDL, it becomes it.

It isn't emulation. It's a re-implementation. There is a world of difference.
 

Offline Hattig

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 03:51:34 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;602414
And using VHDL to develop silicon would not be the optimal way to design an ASIC.

It's only how a lot of companies actually do their work. Even AMD's Bobcat x86-64 core is VHDL - yeah, it costs them some potential clock speed, but the benefits outweigh the downsides for them. ARM cores are designed in VHDL as well. I expect a lot of other cores are - CPU, GPU, etc. Designing custom silicon these days needs a lot of resources. Anyway, who would care, Natami/FPGAArcade Minimig as custom silicon would run very fast even if made on an ancient 250nm process.

Edit: Must reiterate that it would still be very costly and highly unlikely to happen, hence the FPGA solutions which will still end up thrashing a classic Amiga into the ground in terms of performance and features - and at least the hardware can be updated with bugfixes! We can all hope a Chinese knock-off company makes an Amiga-in-a-joystick ASIC one day that we can hack apart like the C64-in-a-joystick :-)

Btw, Franko - I don't think that Natami will be 100% compatible with classic Amiga software, especially demos and games that really hit the hardware and do timing incorrectly (assume 68k clocks, rather than use hardware timers, etc). Maybe there will be an A500 level core developed in due course to allow that, but don't expect it out of the box.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 04:03:53 PM by Hattig »
 

Offline Hattig

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 04:05:58 PM »
Haggis is lovely.

But they're a pain to catch, running across the hills in their wild natural state.
 

Offline Hattig

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 11:59:49 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;602801
I was out of the Mac game by then, so I'll leave judgement to those who've actually used it, but: as bad as Windows ME?


Mac OS X 10.0 had lots of issues (read the old Ars Technica articles on OS X) but the OS rapidly improved. They all had the solid Unix underpinnings however, and I'd rather use 10.1 than Windows ME. A lot of the issues reported were people moaning about differences from classic Mac OS too, rather than actual flaws like Windows had.

10.2 brought OpenGL accelerated desktop compositing amongst other things, 10.3 brought the very useful Expose, and 10.4 (the first version I used) was very solid.
 

Offline Hattig

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2010, 05:26:58 PM »
Quote from: JJ;603019
Still no hardware accelerated flashh though.
 
Tiger on my mac mini cant watch youtube using flash


Yeah, well, Adobe Flash has issues on any platform that isn't Windows. It's hardware accelerated if you have Snow Leopard and nVidia graphics though.