It's not developed because everybody here tells me "go away, we have no interest in it".
Nobody said that. If you want and can develop OS3.1 further, it would sure be of interest to many people. But why does this depend on the kickstart decision done by the apollo team?
I have seen discussions about morals but nonetheless I wonder what really makes you so angry as to repeat the same points all the time that were already proven to be moot several times.
Again, I've no problem if people prefer AROS - that's a choice everybody can make
And all hardware manufacturers can make their own decisions about which kickstart to include, none, a licensed 3.1 or a free AROS kickstart.
they would be most certainly be used if there would be interest in a - albeit closed source, paid - development.
What would the economical and legal model be for such paid development? So far I have gathered that somebody outside Hyperion would do it. I conclude that this would involve money going from Hyperion to the developer. For the developer the motivation would be clear. For Hyperion the hope would be that money finds its way to them. Where would that money come from and at what point in time?
There's a new interesting product on the market that triggers interest in users investing into the classics.
The new product triggers a lot of interest. Interests that the creators of the product may not share. E.g. people approached BigGun advising him to stop cooperating with Igor and Brian and instead work with somebody more professional. People come and create FPGA accelerator boards nobody had asked them for hoping that the apollo core might become available to them. People come and want to create (and lead?) a committee that decides on the extensions to the 68k ISA. People come and want to bundle an OS yet to be created with the vampire.
What the f***?!?
Of course that also means that now the owner of the Os sees some interest in investing into the classics.
They explicitly said that they had NO interest at all in the classics. They only have interest in PPC. They said that they would use any money they get from the apollo team for their PPC business. Gunnar offered them 10,000€ for the rights to develop 3.1 further but they were not willing to grant any rights or give guaranties about the status of the outcome of this development. There simply was no basis for an agreement nor even preliminary negotiations.
Of course, nobody would be getting rich by this development, but in end, everybody could have had what wasn't possible before , a renovated Os, a renovated hardware, new software.
The problem with this is that we came to the conclusion that a renovated OS seems to be more likely to happen based on AROS than on OS3.1. We'd appreciate either, though.
You cannot first negotiate with the owners on licensing the rtg graphics interface, and later on work around this negotiations and ignore the owners and forget the negotiations just because it now suddenly fits better to the plan to do so.
Well, as a matter of fact you can. If you go to a car dealer and start negotiating with him, you are still free to leave the shop without a new car...
The funny thing is that it isn't even clear who the owners of the RTG interface actually are today. Hey, psst, I sell licenses to walking on the precinct in front of your house! They are cheap but the price will double tomorrow! :roflmao:
I *personally* believe [closed-source OS3.1 development] stops making sense at this time. There is a clear indication now, and a clear decision has been made that this is not wanted nor desired.
Clear indication by whom? OS 3.5 and 3.9 have been sold. I have no idea whether actual money was gained that justified the investment but this isn't changed by the fact that the vampire will be shipped including an AROS kickstart rom. After all the AROS rom does not exclude OS 3.5 and 3.9 from running AFAIK. And if it does, it can and should be changed to be more compatible.
The only thing I know is that it cannot work without them, so I personally considered it would be at least worth a try. Unfortunately, as it seems, it neither can work with them.
Again, why would future development of OS3.1 depend on the vampire?
Honest question here - not trying to be snarky or incite a flame war: do people honestly believe that potential Vampire 2 owners are more interested in running AROS on their Amigas than 3.x?
I think that most people are interested in being able to run both. It will most probably be possible to flash user kickstarts alongside the AROS kickstart and select the rom to be used from an early startup menu. But that needs some work and has relatively low priority.
I've tinkered with AROS (68k and x86) out of curiosity and I commend the devs for their dedication to the OS and the countless hours they've invested in making it *but* from my perspective the user-base seems tiny even in comparison to OS4 and MorphOS - having used it, I can't think of a single reason to run it on a classic Amiga - even one accelerated by a Vampire.
You must not mix up AROS and the AROS kickstart. While we also believe that AROS is an interesting opportunity, all this discussion is mostly about the kickstart to ship with the vampire.
All I can say is the following: Whenever I mention "closed source commercial software" in this forum, I get an uproar as if this would be something morally wrong, undesired.
That may be your personal perception. Or you oversimplify other peoples' statements.
Unfortunately, "closed source commerical software" is the only option for AmigaOs, due to the contracts of Hyperion with Amiga, Inc, and Hyperion is the only option as far as advancing the classic Os is. Yes, Cloanto has a license for 3.1, but no license to extend upon it
Has anybody seen any of those license contracts (except for some judges)? It's clear that a licensee empowered to sublicense may not grant more rights than he himself enjoys but I wouldn't sign a contract with any party anyway without actually seeing proof of their rights. In this case the proof would have to be a gapless chain of contracts reaching back to Commodore.
I believe the community made a decision, or at least Gunnar made a decision for the community. The signal is quite clear "Avoid AmigaOs classic, go AROS, ditch Hyperion."
That may be his preference. But who do you believe him to be that you think he could make such a decision for "the community"?
Why? Because the unwillingness to pay for the closed source licenses that go with the closed source development model. And, that in the end, pay development hours.
So your grudge is that Gunnar decided to not pay the bill for closed-source development of OS3.1?
Unfortunately, that's what the legal situation is with AmigaOs classic, and there are no means to fix it.
We could wait until Hyperion finally bites the dust and buy the relevant rights out of the bankruptcy assets. We might even be able to open-source it at last.
