How to get files to an amiga

[Noster]

Hi,

with an old Amiga with Kickstart 1.3 you cannot use such nice tools as PC2Amiga with a LapLink cable, but you can use a serial connection to transfer files between these computers.
If you want to write ADF-files to Amiga disks, you can use TransWarp or TransDisk on the Amiga and ADFSender at the (Windows-)PC.

If you own an old PC (486), you can use TWINExpress for a 115200 baud connection between a standard Amiga and a PC. This tool is also usefull between two Amigas, I have reached upto 190000 baud between two unenhanced A1000's !!

http://ftp.uni-paderborn.de/aminet/aminet/comm/term/twin_11a.lha

To get the initial file (the transfertool) to your Amiga, you could start a simple terminal program on your PC and copy the file to the serial port connected to your Amiga and open a shell on the Amiga and type something like:

copy SER: to RAM:twin.lha

This way the file is copied to the Amigas RAM-disk.

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

@chertel

> Has anyone tried this type of connection?

I have :-D

But I've used two Amigas (A3000T WB 3.9, A500 WB 1.2), the first one (server) with:

copy twin.lha to SER:

and the second (client) with:

copy SER: to RAM:twin.lha

It should also work with a PC as sender. Take care that you use identical settings for the serial port on both machines.

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

@DethKnight

Have you the same settings for the serial port on both machines ?
Remember that you could use 19200 baud as maximum for the standard SER: of an Amiga.

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

> I seem to get what appears to be 57600 using NComm
> no funky errors

with the standard serial.device ? Or are you using something like baudbandit.device with NComm ?

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

I have copied the section about the serial cable from the documentation of TwinExpress:

            1.4 THE SERIAL CABLE
           
                    A  null-modem  cable  connects  the  computers by their
            serial  ports.  Such  a cable can be bought in a computer store
            or  can  be  made  from an eight-wire cable and two connectors.
            The  table  below  shows  how  the  different signals are wired
            along   with   the  pinout  in  use  with  different  types  of
            connectors (9 and 25 pins):
           
              ------ CONNECTOR 1 -----        ----- CONNECTOR 2 ------
                DB25     DB9    SIGNAL        SIGNAL    DB9     DB25
           
                 07       05       GND  <---> GND       05       07
                 02       03        TD  <---> RD        02       03
                 03       02        RD  <---> TD        03       02
                 05       08       CTS  <---> RTS       07       04
                 04       07       RTS  <---> CTS       08       05
                 06       06       DSR  <---> DTR       04       20
                 20       04       DTR  <---> DSR       06       06
           
            Usually  the serial port has a male connector. The cable should
            therefore  have  two female connectors. However, it is safer to
            verify this before you buy a cable...

(The format of the text is destroyed, as every additional blank is removed from the text :-()
Build this cable, and copy the transfer-tool (e.g. TransWarp can be found in Aminet) to the A1000 as I've mentioned earlier in this thread.


Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

> can you give step-by-step for idiots like me?

I think, I could, but to make such a step-by-step guide, I have to do it myself, so I don't forget any step :-)

This will require time, I think I could make that this evening, if you have the time to wait...(it is now 11:00am here in Germany).

Noster

EDIT: In the meantime you could build the cable :-D

[Noster]

Hi,

and remember that the A1000 has a female serial connector instead of a male one!!! (pinout for a null-modem cable is identically)

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

Ok, shame on me, I was talking nonsense :-(

During testing for a step-by-step tutorial to copy a program usable to transfer files between an Amiga and a Windows-PC, I detected that it doesn't work as mentioned by me before.
The command "copy SER: to RAM:foo.bar" doesn't work on an Amiga :-(
I remembered, that I have copyied data (an ADF-file) from one Amiga to another one using a serial connection and the command "copy xyz.ADF to SER:" on the server and TransWarp on the client: This works!

However, I'm still searching for a way to copy the files required to make an easy connection between an unenhanced Amiga using Kickstart 1.2/1.3 and the according Workbench without any additional tools.
Maybe the command "Type" will make it in a form of "Type SER: To RAM:foo.bar".
This way the data of the serial port is transfered to the ramdisk into the file "foo.bar".

There are still some problems :-(:
1. The Type command only copies whole 512 byte blocks to the destination, the last bytes of the last transfered block are remaining in the serial buffer.
2. The Type command doesn't detect the end of the transfered file and remains waiting for more data.
3. The transfered data isn't completely identically ? I'm looking if this is the cause of failures during the transfer or a problem of Type, i.e. maybe Type doesn't types every character.

On the Windows-side you cannot use a terminal program, because these programs always use a kind of protocol (e.g. ZModem) and doesn't transfer the data "as is".
A way to transfer the data "as is" should be the (DOS) command "Copy". It is allowed to copy files to the devices LPT or COM1, COM2 in a form "Copy foo.bar COM1". This way the file should be copied "as is", I have to check this out also (there may have to be used the switches /A or /B with this command).

So I'm still on the run, there must be a way to get a file transfered via serial cable...

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

bad news, the Type command only works for ascii-files :-(
The characters with an ascii-value in the range from 8 to 13 are removed from the typed file (don't know if all or only some of them). These codes are used to reposition the cursor and therefor are ignored and not typed by Type.

@chertel + badalias

If you own the original Workbench disk, do you also own the Extras disk containing Amiga Basic?
I will write a small program that is able to read data from the serial port and write it to a destination file in Amiga Basic. Such a Basic program can be transfered to an Amiga and be written to disk using the Type command, because Amiga Basic programs are just simple text-files. So anybody that owns a Workbench (1.2/1.3) and the according Extras disk can transfer the Amiga Basic program to his Amiga and use that program to load a better program (e.g. a terminal program) to the Amiga.

I think it will take 2-3 days to write and test such a tool (currently I'm not fit in Amiga Basic any more, last time I used it was 15 years ago :-)). Are you interested?

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

that doesn't look like the original Extras disk. The disk seems to be changed and used for other tools, an Extra 1.3 disk should contain this:

Trashcan (dir)
t (dir)
BasicDemos (dir)
Tfiles (dir)
fd1.2 (dir)
.info
Amiga Tutor
Amiga Tutor.info
AmigaBasic
AmigaBASIC.info
BasicDemos.info
demo
demo.info
Disk.info
fractels
fractels.info
Terminal
Terminal.info
Tfiles.info
Trashcan.info                    

EDIT: By the way, reading my own post, I see the program Terminal in the list above. IS that a terminal program? I will check that (and look for my other Extras disk stored by my parents, maybe the disk listed above is also not an original one?).

> Could I convert my 1010 Dirve to a 1020 drive using a 5 1/4" 1.2Mb drive from a PC (For example from an old 286)?

That wont work. The first problem will be the different connector types of 3 1/2" and 5 1/4" drives and the second one the different pinout of the connectors. Most PC drives miss the required DiskChange signal and a few pins may have a different usage.
If you want to convert a PC-drive to an Amiga drive, check this:

http://ftp.uni-paderborn.de/aminet/aminet/hard/hack/PCFloppy2Amiga.lha

It describes in detail how to rework a PC floppy to an Amiga floppy.

> Check out WarTrans - Warlock's Amiga Transfer Program, I just found it, but alas, I have no Amiga Basic on my Extras 1.3 disk.

Yeah, that is it !!! :-D
I stop developing my own little tool, WarTrans has everything we need, it is the tool we were searching for.
I will test it on my own today.

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

> Hows about the crazy idea of transfering files between an Amiga and a Comodore (Pet, C=64 or C=128)?

If you can get access to the required filesystem, you could read nearly any diskformat with an Amiga. There is CrossDos for accessing PC-disks for example and I know there were tools to access Atari and Mac disks (or does CrossDos support these diskformats too ?).
But I don't know if there is a filesystem available for C64 or Pet disks, even if there had been build 5 1/4" diskdrives for the Amiga (I own one) they are very unusual and therefore not very good supported.

I would start a quick search in Aminet for such a tool/filesystem.

A good (and expensive) solution would be the CatWeasel controller. With this controller in your PC you can access disks in nearly any available format.

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

> Yes I pressed + (nothing happened).

You have to press +C at the Amiga (while the Cli is the active window)!

The time you initiate the second transfer, the text "***Break" should appear in the Cli of the Amiga and then a prompt should appear in the line below that immediately, waiting for new commands to be entered.

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

> Is there a difference between a "Shell" window and a "CLI" window?

A shell is a newer better CLI, so it supports a history and other features.

Open a second shell, transfer the first file, then enter the command "List RAM:" in the second shell. Which size has the transfered file ? If it is still 0 bytes large, I think your serial connection doesn't work at all. Check the settings ones more and test your cable again (if possible between two other computers -- e.g. serial connection between two Windows PC's).
In worst case your Amiga's serial port is dead :-(

Noster

[Noster]

Hi,

> transdisk . . . . . . . . .empty ----rwed Today . . 01:06:53

As I've thought, nothing reaches at the serial port of your Amiga :-(
Check your serial settings ones more, check your cable once more, try to use a lower baud rate...

Maybe this could help to test your connection:
http://ftp.uni-paderborn.de/aminet/aminet/comm/misc/NullTest_10.lha

EDIT: Bad idea, how should you get this to your Amiga? :-(

Noster

[Noster]

Hi

@badalias

Congratulations to your working transfer :-)

> My next hurdle is getting individual files (Eg. LHA files from aminet) onto the A1000.

You should search for a terminal program for this purpose or better: If you own an older PC (486 or Pentium I) you should try to get TwinExpress, it is much faster than any terminal program (upto 115200 baud with an A1000, the PC is slowing down, the A1000 could go upto 190000 baud).

> Is it possible to ennlarge my RAM: drive?

Yes, buy more ram :-D
The RAM-disk itself is dynamic, i.e. it allocates the amount of system-memory, that is required to store the files you put into. If you delete files from the ram-disk, it shrinks and releases the unused memory.

> How about transfering my Workbench files to it to reduce disk swapping?

I don't know the size of your Amigas memory, but if you own a 2MB memory expansion as I do for my A1000, you could easily copy your Workbench disk to RAM: make the required assigns and you don't have to swap the disks again (and the Workbench is very fast).

> I know the RAM: drive is exactly that, and it would have to be re-loaded each time the machine is booted.

There is a better solution available for this: If you own Kickstart and Workbench 1.3 you could create a reset-resistant ram-disk! So you have to copy the files of the Workbench after the first system start (simular to the Kickstart) and than the system could be bootet from that ram-disk in high-speed :-), until you power-off the system or a very bad written program runs amok in your ram.
I search for my own disks, I've made this 15 years ago for my A1000. I'll post a how-to-do as soon as possible.

Noster