Help needed from A3000 users !

[arkpandora]

Hello,

Once again I have to ask you for some help.

On the Amiga Hardware Database I am reading this about the A3000's built-in SCSI controller : "The controller's configuration is stored in a NVRAM powered by the same battery which the clock is." (http://amiga.resource.cx/mod/a3000.html)  Does it mean that an A3000's hard drive may not work if the clock battery is empty or missing ?  Which informations does this configuration contain ?  If some are required to use the hard drive, how can you update this configuration in order to make it active without a battery until the power is turned off ?  Excuse me if I am uninformed : I just haven't much technical knowledge of the Amiga.

However I have just bought my first Amiga 3000, whose clock battery was removed but not replaced.  At first the computer seemed to work, but in fact it doesn't work normally when a hard drive is plugged in, whatever the hard drive or SCSI cable.  Whenever you manage to partition and format the hard drive using HDToolBox (most of the time the computer is unusable before that), the hard drive boots after switching the computer on and sometimes after one or more resets, but the other times instead of booting it only triggers checksum errors, software failures and even some "Not enough memory error", even when you boot from a Workbench floppy disk.  When I remove the hard drive and boot from the same floppy, the computer works.  The computer is a standard A3000 Desktop with a 68030 at 25 MHz, Kickstart 2, 2 Mb Chip Ram, 3 Mb Fast Ram, and no additional card.  Do you have any clue in order to solve this problem ?  I will do some more precise tests if somebody can assure me that the missing clock battery is not at fault.

Thank you for any help !

[arkpandora]

Thank you for your help and informations.

I have tried three hard disks successively, all smaller than 4 Gb (200 Mb, 2 Gb and 540 Mb).  The first one was in the Amiga when I bought it : the former owner was using it without a problem.  I had never tested the second but it was given to me as working.  The last one was taken from my old SCSI PC in which it works perfectly.

The three drives are terminated with their built-in jumper.  I don't know if the first drive really is as the jumpers are not provided with a key, but with this drive the Amiga is the same setup the former owner was using without problem, so I guess this drive is terminated.  The second and third drive are terminated without a doubt.  Anyway the third drive was the only SCSI device in the PC as well.  I don't have any independant terminator, but there wasn't any at the end of the internal chain when I bought the Amiga, so I assume the previous owner wasn't using any.  To my knowledge he wasn't using any external SCSI device either, but I will ask him to confirm that.

The third drive (a Conner 540 Mb) is the only one that does not crash the computer before you launch the format command.  However it crashes like the others at the end of the formatting at the earliest, at the latest when you browse through the drawers of a newly installed Workbench or try to read files you have copied.  These crashes can take various forms, ranging from the "Software failure", "Out of memory error" and checksum errors I quoted, to screen freezes or scramblings.

The third drive bears a sticker with some physical informations such as the number of heads and cylinders : I notice that they don't correspond to what HDToolBox detects, although the latter does detect the right names and total size of the drive.  I have tried to setup the drive again using the informations that are written on the drive, but some are missing : I tried to figure out the number of blocks per tracks and block per cylinders according to the informations I had, but don't know if they are accurate.  And I didn't get better results.

Since the former owner was using the hard disk's built-in terminator, I doubt whether termination of the internal part of the chain is at fault.

I will test the memory with MemCheck tomorrow.

Thank you again !

[arkpandora]

Hi,

No, the first drive was used by the former owner, but since I bought the Amiga it hasn't been working either : that's why I tried two other drives, thinking the first one was broken.  I haven't tested several drives at the same time : I tested every drive as stand-alone, as I just want to install one hard drive.  Currently the Amiga works without a hard drive, but doesn't work with a hard drive, even only one...

I tried four or five different SCSI cables of various lenghts, all known to be working.  And I made sure that none of the drives had the ID 7 used by the controller.

Edit : is HDInstTools KS 2 compatible ?  I seem to remember it is not.

[arkpandora]

You are right : HDInstTools is KS 2 compatible, so I will give it a try.  Thanks for your advice.

[arkpandora]

Here are some news from my Amiga 3000 problem.

I started the computer again today, with the third hard drive.  It showed a new symptom : the hard drive powered up several times in a row, as if there was a hard drive or power supply problem.  The hard drive didn't show that symptom in a PC, but I will try it in a PC again.  On one of the three hard drives I had tried the two plugs of the power supply lead, so if the power supply is to blame in the computer's problem, at least the power supply unit is at fault.

I have run the two "MemCheck" Aminet tools : they report no memory problem.

I then tried HDInstTools instead of HDToolBox : it behaved almost like HDToolBox.  Automatically it detected the same parameters.  I partitioned the drive again, saved the changes to the drive.  After the reboot, immediately the power led started to flash, bringing up a "Not enough memory error" on a "software failure"-like screen.  The computer then tried to boot on the Workbench floppy disk but showed a "Software failure" instead.  When finally the floppy booted, I ran HDToolBox again : the drive parameters had disappeared, replaced by default values.  HDToolBox had behaved the same way after the computer's first crash of each session, but unlike HDToolBox you can't ask HDInstTools to read the drive parameters if it hasn't detected them by itself, so I was unable to go on and format the drive.  Anyway HDInstTools has not solved the problem.

The seller hasn't yet confirmed to me that he wasn't using any external SCSI device or termination, and I won't remove the upper metal part of the computer supporting the power supply until it is necessary, as being clumsy I am afraid of breaking something else...

 If you're unlucky, your DMAC might be bad. Since the SCSI controller is a DMA device, it uses the DMA Controller extensively.

OK, thanks.

As almost all my Amiga are now out of order despite my care, Amiga Center might be the next step.

[arkpandora]

Well, I won't do what dealers were told to do with the A500 unless my own life is at stake...

No, the computer works with a hard drive too, but only if you don't use the hard drive.  If you try to access the hard drive, the latter works a few seconds or minutes, then crashes the computer, which then becomes unusable even if you boot from a floppy.  Before the first crash, at best you can partition and low-level format the hard drive, verify the drive (detect the presence of bad blocks), format it and install the Workbench or another software ; then it gets stuck when you open a drawer or try to read what you have copied.  Most of the time you can't even format it or write anything.

I have just plugged in the hard drive without the SCSI cable attached : the computer works OK, as it does without a hard drive.  I don't even get the hesitant powering up : the hard drive powers up at first try.  This might indicate there's a SCSI problem, but I have to abandon my tests at the moment.  I will resume them later.

Thank you again for your help.

[arkpandora]

Hi,

Thanks for your warm support.

The first hard drive I tested was already formatted and WB-installed, as it was in the state the former owner used it, and I had successfully tested this drive at his house.  The first time I used the computer after the buying, it didn't crash either : I could read and write a few files, even LHA some of them, without a problem, except that I noticed the floppy drive was broken (I now test the computer with and without a spare non-A3000 internal drive).  But at the second test the hard drive jammed the computer (in the same way as the other drives I tested afterwards), although I didn't change anything to that drive except trying to read and write files as I did during the first test.

"The controller's configuration is stored in a NVRAM powered by the same battery which the clock is."

That's the quote I started my thread with, although it didn't came from the same source.  Which "setbatt.lha" are you referring to ?  The docs of the two SetBatt I find on Aminet don't contain this phrase.

Powering the hard drive with a PC is what I intented to do today, but as I'm lacking space at the moment, I will test that later.

I may be able to prepare another drive if necessary, as I have an SCSI A4000 that should work - you may meet this Amiga in another of my "Needing help" threads...

And I haven't performed all the tests that were suggested in this thread, so except technical and tinkering skills (I am just a passionate Amiga user hating electronics !) I am not running out of ressources yet.