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Offline the_leander

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« on: October 23, 2010, 08:11:12 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;586446
As stated at AmiWest 2010, they still have no interest in x86.

I suppose selling a handful outdated slow overpriced computers somehow makes them more money than selling good software that runs on fast commodity hardware.

Greed > user experience.

Unbelievable.


Unbelievable? Not really.

Ben Hermans is nothing if not consistent.
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2010, 08:17:37 PM »
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;586450

No profit = bankrupt


Hyperion so far as I can tell has been a hobby company pretty much since they pushed to get the OS4 development licence.
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2010, 08:37:56 PM »
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;586455
Same thing, unless someone is funding them, they won't survive if no one buys the machines.


The point I was getting at was that they're not a company in the strictest sense of the word. There is nothing to go bankrupt so far as I can tell because everything is done by third parties. The only employee I'm aware of is Hermans himself. Even the Friedens are independent of the company as was shown in legal wrangling over the ExecSG kernel.

Any normal for profit organisation would have folded long before now or moved onto other markets. Hyperion are as much a shell as Amiga.Inc was/is.
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2010, 08:40:23 PM »
Quote from: runequester;586459
So far, Acube has developed the hardware


I thought that Sam was an off the shelf board for the embedded sector that just happened to be available? Or am I thinking of something else here?


Quote from: runequester;586459

From the interviews with the guy in charge of Hyperion, it seems that the X1000 is very much a vanity project, that he is hoping to break even on.


Yeah pretty much.
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2010, 09:10:06 PM »
Quote from: runequester;586473

People can do whatever they want with their money. Even if the X1000 turns out to tank, it'll still be more than "amiga.inc" has produced in what ? 5 years ?


This presumes that the X1000 ever makes it to market as anything other than a devs plaything - something I'm not entirely sure of. As far as Amiga.Inc goes... Tbh they were tied up in court by Hyperion for quite a few of those years, so to make the comparison is a little unfair.  imho the only reason Hyperion won what they did was simply that they had more cash, not because of holding the high ground.

Quote from: runequester;586473

As far as x86, again.. meh. The only audience that exists for this are us here. What would a port of OS4 do that AROS does not ?


Consider the press that the Commodore USA announcement generated. Hell it managed to get more press coverage than the Amiga has seen since 3.9 was released. AROS might be technically competent, MorphOS is certainly more mature.

But OS4 has a name that is recognisable to people other than those within the community.
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2010, 09:19:21 PM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;586495
I think the publicity of Commodore USA was more down to the word Amiga than OS4


"Amiga OS4"

Amiga is a brand has some recognition still. Neither MorphOS or AROS can claim that.
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2010, 11:10:11 PM »
Quote from: actung_bab;586532
get over yourself its his company he decides what happens you just want something for free


Where the hell did that come from?
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2010, 11:16:09 PM »
Quote from: actung_bab;586533
well said brother me too seems like old days ones with lundest voices are ones that
never put money to buy new hardware


ROTFL

MMMM, I'm guessing you were going to use your sock account but missed?
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 05:32:03 PM »
Quote from: lsmart;586728
So you like Windows (MacOS doesn´t run on a vanilla x86)


Getting MacOS to run on vanilla x86 is trivial.

Is there any word on a working port of Linux for the X1000?
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 10:32:50 PM »
Quote from: utri007;586831
x86 would stop all OS4 projects for years and not income in that time.


OS4 has never really produced much income period.

Quote from: utri007;586831

 It would only make costs, not any profit. And who wants to wait another 3-5 years in this situation? when we have more hardware that ever, after commodore


Because the options that are available today are unpalatable?

Quote from: utri007;586831

It is possible to make cheap PPC hardware, look at efica, to adding to it memory slot or two would make it perfect cheap solution for as.


PPC is expensive. Hideously so and getting worse all the time. The reason for the Efica's low cost was due wholly to the fact that it was so limited in terms of hardware (which is why it was so heavily panned). The moment you try to throw expandability into the mix, suddenly you're up at Sam 440 prices again.

Quote from: utri007;586831

I allso remember interview of BeOs developer who blamed that x86 actually killed BeOs


They may well have said it. It doesn't make it true however. The one and only thing that killed BeOS, was Microsoft putting pressure on OEMs to block the OS being sold.

The reason they dumped PPC was because it was hugely expensive to develop (in terms of hardware development) and not particularly fast even when done right...
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2010, 11:47:38 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;586849
I think you guys are missing a vital point.
If AOS4 was ported to X86 processors, do you really think they'd sell a lot more copies? Or would most PC users still continue to use Windows, OSX, and maybe Linux?
Who would they sell it to? Us, the fanatics willing to still support this market (and there really aren't many of us).


I stick by what I said here.

However, if you somehow managed to get the cash and manpower necessary together to do a port, there is a market for alternate OS's. But you would have to limit your hardware choices to something like Mini-ITX if you wanted to avoid the hardware support nightmare that BeOS/Zeta had.

As for how many copies you'd sell, honestly you would have to work damned hard to sell fewer copies than they are currently.

Cost of entry counts for a lot.

Quote from: Iggy;586849

Further if PPCs are dead, why are Appliedv Micro and Freescale still introducing new models?


PPC's for the desktop are dead. What's being developed now is primarily for the embedded/telecoms sectors, with of course, the handful of models for the games console market.

Quote from: Iggy;586849

I've said this before on this forum, but it bears repeating, the diversity of our hardware is not a negative thing its a positive.If you want an Amiga like OS on a specific platform, all you have to do is switch which variant your using.


Yes and no. Having choice is good, but the division of labour that was required to produce that choice isn't so much.

The only really important thing though is this: To enjoy what you have :)
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2010, 07:52:47 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;586861
Its funny Alan, I find myself agreeing with you on far to many points.


Don't worry, the nauseous sensation that comes with it passes with time, so I'm told ;)

Quote from: Iggy;586861

Being one of the people hanging on to PPC based systems, I love a new vanity based too cool for words piece of hardware. I just can't wrap my mind around the pricing.


I have to say I didn't really have much of an opinion on the X1000, I figured it was another vapour project. Then we saw real hardware and that mind bogglingly epic projected price tag... From kinda neat but a bit "meh" for me to holy shit, that is mentally expensive! In the space of a youtube vid.

Sam 460 looks to be about the only semi viable PPC system that looks like it'll see the light of day. Hopefully the X1000 won't have done too much damage by then.
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 08:23:12 AM »
Quote from: minator;586860
Glad someone agrees with me on that.


Only someone who had never really followed the BeOS scene would say otherwise tbh.

Quote from: minator;586860

AFAIK the reason they dumped PPC was they had no machines to develop for.  They had been targeting Mac clones but as soon as they were cancelled they had no choice but to switch to x86.


They had been running on CHRP hardware after dropping the BeBox, when the newer G3 kit came out they were faced with the choice of X86 only or building their own PPC kit from scratch again due to Apple being very coy about the internals of their newer stuff - that's what I meant by the cost of PPC development.

--ninjar edits--
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 08:30:57 AM by the_leander »
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 11:52:52 PM »
Quote from: desiv;587035

I do wonder, what were the JPEG times for those 2 systems?
How did they compare at the time?



The major issue with such a test is the fact that even if the Amiga's CPU wins out, it'll still get smooshed at the point it attempts to display it by any 486 by virtue of the fact that the 486 will be using a graphics card almost certainly superior to either ECS or AGA.

In none compute intensive tasks, my A3000 030'25 with a CV64 was significantly more fluid to use verses my A1200 AGA with an 040'28.
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2010, 12:03:32 AM »
Quote from: desiv;587057
True.  Not only was Intel pulling ahead based on shear power about that time, but the graphics cards on the PCs were just starting to come into their own a bit.

Although, sheer power can't be totally written off...
Some of the AGA 060 demos by The Black Lotus are just amazing...

Or so they appear on youtube.  No 060 to test them..  :(

desiv


TBL senseless and starstruck run quite well on an 040 if you're running oxypatcher. Dunno about later ones.

--edit--

AFAIK they also work under UAE too, since that was the environment they were developed under.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 12:06:58 AM by the_leander »
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