How is OS4 ?

[the_leander]

What's a "woss"? :p

[the_leander]

I sincerely thought the days of red v blue penis measuring on the site were a thing of the past, gone with those that went away and created their own niche forums.

Kids eh? !

[the_leander]

This thread reminds me of the old PowerUp vs WarpOS thread some years ago.

Yeah, but those at least had the marginal benefit of being fresh and original. Not turgid rehashes of feted nonsense spewed over and over again by people who haven't yet worked out that the war is long over and that everyone lost.

[the_leander]

I allways find irritating how MorpOS guys allways attack every OS4 thread, even when it is purely OS4 here in amiga.org

As Red says: Since when, exactly?

The rest is covered quite nicely by Fab I think.

[the_leander]

I think he meant when a thread is solely about OS4, not the forum.

If he cannot say what he means, how can he mean what he says?

[the_leander]

You seem to forget that having a system with no expandable GFX card is way more limiting than the lack of VMX, I would take a powerful PCI-E card over that any day (much more potential, as in INFINITE more potential).

I disagree. It's all well and good having "INFINITE" potential (which actually isn't), but what value is it if you've neither the software nor the drivers to make use of it?

I didn't blindly believed anything (ho and summer anyway, finishes September 20th, some 3 months from now).

If you seriously think that you will get a final, shipping X1000 in 3 months from now you should think about stopping whatever it is you're huffing.

Keep your love for dead ends for yourself

Because the X1000, with it's PA6T cpu totally isn't a dead end...

You should talk with Vidarh about this, he is not convinced it is the only solution, not one bit.

There are some people who truly believe that anything more advanced than 8bit was a bad idea. Doesn't make it true however.

Amiga back comers don't care about that, i run Blender a modern software that needs a modern API and it is ROCK SOLID. Never crashes even after an 8 hour render I can pick it up and continue. Guess that many other modern app will work the same without any mystical api change (just what's needed is the motto

Which is fine up until you get an application that haemorages memory... Like Firefox or WebKit. Firing up either of these on a system with little effective memory protection is just asking for trouble.

Crumb, can you just stop being antagonistic? You know the graphics subsystem isn't there, they were using a 33Mhz radeon 9200 on debug.

The 9200 came in 250 and 300Mhz flavours. If yours is running at 33Mhz you have serious issues over and above the fact that you were running your OS with full debugging enabled on it's public debut.

The only way for MOS and AOS to get along is to progress on their own and for users to stop being antagonistic.

Aparently pointing out the truth is considered antagonistic these days.

[the_leander]

You are wrong on this one, the CPU was developed before the buy out and Apple even had to concede on any sale of this CPU to third parties.

It should also be noted that there is no requirement for PA Semi to continue to develop the design beyond this chip. In fact from what I've seen they've been concentrating on ARM parts ever since Apple took them over.

So the chip is as EOL as the 68060 was for the 68k line.

Nice how history repeats itself, eh? Apparently though the Amiga community didn't learn the lessons inherent in the A1 the first time around.

1) Designed when there was no Apple

The PA6T was designed before 1976? Holy crap why didn't PA Semi sell it back then?! :lol:

2) Made elsewhere certainly not by Apple

Texas Instruments are the likely manufacturer according to wikipedia.

So much so for an Apple CPU...

They own the company and the IP, so it is now in effect an Apple CPU.

I can reply 12 times to anything you wrote (usual BS)

You can reply any number of times, but repeating half truths and outright falsehoods doesn't make them true.

You know, it was the impending clusterf^ck that was the launch of the A1 that caused me to decommission my Amigas and move onto BeOS and then later Linux. I watched with fascination from the outside as zealots like yourself made many of the justifications for the high price of the A1 nearly 6 years ago. Those justifications weren't true then and they aren't now.  The software that they claimed would magically appear never really did and thanks to the gross mismanagement of Hyperion and the staggering incompetence of Amiga.inc, the vast majority of development talent that existed 10 years ago will never again write a single line of code for the Amiga.

So we're now looking at an even greater foulup with the X1000, 3 times the cost of the A1 its replacing and with only a scant handful of applications ever written for its primary OS (seriously, Zeta had more apps written for and ported to it in it's short life than OS4 has had ever.) and an OS itself that seems to have serious issues with things like USB2.0, years after these issues were supposedly fixed.

[the_leander]

And the solution is to resign ourselves to the idea that we will never ever get good 3D drivers right?
Anyway Rogue said their gonna work on expanding OS4 after the X1000 port and he said he knows Graphics are top priority.
We'll see about that...

Ah Rouge...

:lol:
I don't actually (but who knows?  Seriously though, I will be glad to buy it for Christmas.

Of what year though? And by that I mean that have a version of OS4 that actually works at least as well as it does on current hardware. Look how long it's taken to get it working (kinda) on the A1 and Sam...

The whole WILL to design new HW it's not a dead end, PAsemi CPU might come and go, but if there is the "will" they will find new solutions.
When there is no will (or possibility as in MOS case) there can't be solutions.

Of course there will be solutions, MiniMig, Natami and AROS on x86. But as far as PPC goes? Don't kid yourself.

Vidarh is a top programmer.

So are Piru and Karlos and maybe a handful of others on this board. You know what though? His opinion, like theirs matters not one iota. The markets have spoken and they have moved to x86 on the desktop. PPC now only exists in niches like telecoms and games consoles. Sure, IBM still develop POWER for big iron, but POWER and PPC are two very different beasts. Likewise the chips being brewed up for consoles are also likely to be quite specialised pieces of kit that wouldn't necessarily lend themselves well to the consumer desktop market.

When I will get the final version I will let you know how it fares

If you like.

typo there, what I meant is it was running on a 33Mhz standard PCI bus with a ton of debug code running, the final version will have a PCI-E 16X R700 card and no debug code.

I figured as much re the typo. But really, for a public showing there really was no excuse to have it running in full debug, in fact the whole showing felt very last minute.

You get to make a first impression once. From a PR point of view, seeing a £1500 piece of hardware being touted as "next gen" whilst at the same time running Q3 at 4fps... Didn't exactly make a good one.

The X1000 it's not the original AmigaOne,

Lets face it DAX, the situation isn't much different. Sure some of the minor details may be different (the PR side of things seemed much more professional with the A1, at least until the truth got out) but its the same story.

those making it know the market they're getting into

Now this I really do wonder about.

they know is broken into "factions", they know it's small.
OS4 development was spotty at best during the last several years, everything was frozen and the developers found themselves in a situation where if they worked hard, they could've lost it (for nothing) so they probably worked at Amiga unrelated stuff for a large part of that time period, giving Amiga some spare time.

And this is kind of the point: Amiga, even on the development side cannot be operated as a business. It is a hobby only and in that context the X1000 simply doesn't make any sense.

It's a whole different commitment and I believe it will bring its fruits. Time will tell.

I heard the same around the time of the A1 launch, it rang hollow then, it rings hollow now.