POLL: Which word, in your opinion, best describes AMIGA today?

[the_leander]

smerf wrote:
@ Karlos,

Hi,

Why not use them for serious work

Lets see... Expensive, limited support for the kinds of things Karlos does during his day job. The constant threat of an application taking out the entire OS thanks to no memory protection... The fact that it would take several orders of magnitude longer to do the things he does (assuming it didn't develop hardware faults thanks to old age)... I could go on...

smerf wrote:
, I trust my old A4000 for keeping my data more than I trust VISTA, and Windows XP.

I'll take a computer that isn't knocking on the door of 15 years old. One with a warrenty, one that I can get spare parts for readily that are new. One that allows me to interact with the internet in a meaningful way, something the Amiga ceased to be able to do a decade ago.

As a front line system, for me at least, the Amiga ended its service after 12 years in 2003. It was and is a fine machine in its own right, but it was never built with the internet in mind and it shows. I love them still, but I fondly remember the things it was actually good at.

smerf wrote:
Ubuntu Linux, but even it had one surprise crash, when Windows Virus protection software saw Linux as a Virus and wiped it out. So I am counting that as a crash,

Windows wiping out a partition is not a crash by any known definition of the word. Ubuntu cannot be held responsible for the actions of another OS on the same disk.

You take massaging the figures to a whole new level.

So... DEAD. But not forgotten.

[the_leander]

bloodline wrote:
I'm dating a 20 year old

Just got to say: UTTER UTTER UTTER UTTER BA+++NO CARRIER

;-)

Damn connection, now, where was I...

bloodline wrote:
even the most geeky of her friends (some of whom are as old as 24) have no knowledge of the Amiga. The Amiga has passed out of living memory of the computer generation. The Amiga is dead...

Ok, now I really do feel old. Cheers buddy :-D

My one consolation is that you probably felt older when you realised that. :lol:

bloodline wrote:
I showed some of these youngsters my A1200 running, I got blank faces... And the odd comment that it looks a bit like Window95 but "flatter"...

I wonder how some of the more frothy amongst the old hardline amiganuts would have responded to the comparason :lol:

bloodline wrote:
This is the reality of Amiga.

Innit.

[the_leander]

bloodline wrote:
No, the Amiga is a dead platform. There is no more development. It is technically static. Individual Computers make hardware that allws us to use the existing platform with modern technologies as the older ones disapear... This is just, for want of a better word, life-support... It is not driving the platform forward

Emphasis mine.
 

HenryCase wrote:
No more development? OS4, MOS2, AROS, Anubis, Natami, Minimig, OWB, Hollywood, Cinammon Writer, etc...

OS4 development continues? Since when? Last I heard AROS was all but dead due to infighting between those wanting a direct 3.1 compatable OS replacement and those wanting to modernise the OS. Minimig is a nice way of continuing to play old games on new hardware - which is what Bloodline was getting at when he described it as life support. NatAmi... Until it ships I will place it in the same drawer as the coldfire accelerator project, the Abox, BoXeR and all the other stuff.

bloodline wrote:
The Amiga platform competes with nothing, is stuck with old technology and old concepts. In 10 years the Amiga will still be just the same... In 10 years Protools will be far in advance of what we have now!

Aparently you missed this Orb.

orb85750 wrote:
I'm simply in disbelief that this point even needed to be made -- but apparently it did (thanks).

I'm simply in disbelief that you missed Bloodlines point -- but apparently you did.

[the_leander]

orb85750 wrote:
It would be difficult to argue that OS4.0 or 4.1 (both of which have been released) is "life support," but I'm willing to listen to your otherworldly wisdom.

It's not really difficult to argue at all, 4.0 and 4.1 didn't bring anything new to the table, took longer to get out the door then the original OS did and were designed to run on a piece of hardware which (and I'm being VERY generous here) had a significantly poorer quality control then what it was supposedly replacing. Worse still, was only ever in production for... well about an hour, after which the manufacturer realised their mistake and promptly killed themselves.

In order for something to be said to move the Amiga forward, it would have to improve upon what was available, to build upon it. The OS itself was so late that by the time it came out most of the community had upped sticks and left for pastures new and those that remained either couldn't afford to get the new hardware to run it on or, even if they did were left with lame duck systems. Frighteningly few people got new gear, an order of magnitude more people left the community in the mean time.

Not to mention the PR disaster that came out when it became clear that the issues were well known, but actively suppressed. It was by any measure an unmitigated disaster!

[the_leander]

KimmoK wrote:
Alive.

It can be used professionally again.

Care to cite a situation where an Amiga could do a job at least as well as even a £160(Comet) Aspire A1 netbook?

[the_leander]

orb85750 wrote:
Sorry the_leander, but it's absurd to argue that OS4 or MOS is life support (and you still have not done so).

I'm sorry, you specifically stated OS4 and 4.1, not MOS. I'll deal with MOS later.

Back in 98 we had the release of a huge amount of top quality software, imho some of the best Amiga software ever released came out, we had announcements of a roadmap, new OS releases and a reasonable timeframe for patches as and when they became necessary we had active and innovative hardware development (PPC and BlizzardVisionPPC). Then around 2000 we got told, that after all the crap we had endured, we were all finally going to get a bridge to the future - the AmigaOne. First designed as an addon board for an A1200 - it would litterally use the 1200 for ports and that's about it, it was sold on the basis that it would litterally be a means to transfer over a more mainstream design.

It was quietly dropped.

By mid 2001 the Aone that many of us grew to love reared its ugily head in the form of the SE (a piece of hardware so braindamaged that rumour has it that the engineer and his entire family committed suicide in shame over it). It was at the time underpowered and grossly overpriced, even comparing it against Apple hardware! But hey, it was still *something* and with the promise of OS4, most people held their tongues.

Then a glorious day, about a week before the release of the new OS... Alan from Eyetech had to announce that contrary to what Amiga.inc had been telling us regarding the development timescale, nothing had been touched for 6 months. At this time there were around 150-200,000 active amiga users. We were then sold the XE and the miniA1 to quench our thirst.

Then we had the T Shirt scam and the later admission that the AmigaOnes that were being sold were actually pretty much scrap and that the distributers and A Inc not only knew about it, but actively shut down discussion in one of the main Amiga forums regarding any or all issues with the broken hardware. Lets avoid the fact that the kit was sold illegally (no warranty).

All of this, as well as the subsiquent drama contributed to people leaving the community in droves. By the time OS4 actually shipped to the public, there were maybe 700 functional Amigaones left in existance and not a great many more Phase5/DCE PPC cards.

So, from 150-200,000 Amiga users to maybe 1500 AmigaOS4 users and possibly as many as 10,000 Amiga users total (I'm being generous here) today.

Explain to me, in what way has OS4 moved the community forward?

orb85750 wrote:
  Despite your impressive realism

fix'd

orb85750 wrote:
there is much excitement and demand within the Amiga community.  Have you not noticed?

Compared to 2000, when we were first given the promise (lie) of OS4 and AmigaOne, the volume is barely audible.

You're being offered significantly less, for substantially more then what was supposed to be on the table nearly a decade ago.

/KennyR

[the_leander]

smerf wrote:
@the_leander

Hi,

I still use Pen Pal almost every day to add to my video data bases, my disk data bases, my household inventory data base and my cd/dvd game collection data base. I use the gvp iv24 to edit my tapes that I make with my movie camera (JVC mini) and I also use various Amiga graphics effects in my recording. I then transfer them to my PC where I can tune them up and record them to dvd or hard drive.

Fantastic, I'm glad you still use your system for this. But your personal use is hardly the same as industry now, is it?

smerf wrote:
I never keep anything of value on my PC using Windows Vista or Windows, I have learned through time that the PC is not a very stable machine since its breaking out in 1981 where I set up 92 IBM machines for the Navy, they were junk then and have not improved since.

:lol:

smerf wrote:
Now you can take your new Acer Aspire and Windows

No, I really can't - I own an EeePC 701 running Elive and Xandros. I pointed to the AA1 because it was cheep and available now.

smerf wrote:
and see if you can match my Amiga for stability, as a matter of fact all you PC heads out there match this, since 1993 my Amiga has only had one crash which I induced myself in 1993, it was easily called back due to Diskmaster and LHARC where I had all my data saved on a backup zip drive. Restore time about 20 minutes. Since then the Amiga has had no failures with data, this year I installed a 2.2 gig hard drive which replaced my 1.2 gig hard drive, no the 1.2 gig hard drive was nowhere near filled, I just done it to use an old 2.2 gig hd that I had sitting on the shelf. Once again restore time on new hd was 20 minutes.

I use multiple backup types, both local and offsite. Relying on a single source for backing up important data is retarded.

Also I want to know what definition of "crash" you are using. I take it to mean the system having to be rebooted due to non response to user command, or in the event of a catastrophe, the Guru/BSOD/coredump output.

smerf wrote:
Now for all you PC users out there with bragging rights, has your computer been going since 1993 without a crash, or without losing data.

Even on the Amiga crashes happened. I've lost data on both the amiga and on PC over the years, difference is, with a PC I can effect quick replacement of defective parts.

smerf wrote:
Rememeber on most computers the first thing they teach you is that the most important thing on your computer is not HARDWARE but your DATA, and I have lost none since 1993 on my Amiga. THANK YOU, How about your ACER ASPIRE?

smerf

I backup everything. AA1 only came out a year ago, also, as I stated I personally own an EeePC 701 and as yet, have not lost any data at all.  

[the_leander]

orb85750 wrote:

persia wrote:
Yep, the Aspire runs leopard like a champ and Final Cut Express runs fine on it.  

You're running Final Cut on an Aspire *ONE*? (re: original question)  What type of pro hacking was required to get Leopard up and running on it?  Easy enough?  Total cost of system with above software and any required hardware upgrades?

Hardly pro hacking... Here's a guide to do so on a Dell Mini 9. Getting OSX for standard X86 PCs working is fairly well established now, with its own "hackintosh" community no less.

If you're genuinely interested with regard the AA1, note that I saw Tescos selling them on their website for around £130. So far as I know though you do need to replace the wireless on the AA1 for that to work under OSX, so the Mini 9 might be an easier option.

[the_leander]

amigadave wrote:
@bloodline,

Nothing personal,

You know, whenever I read this in a forum post, I can almost always expect for the rest of the post to be a snipe-fest...

I wasn't disapointed.