Did Producer Timbaland Steal From the Demoscene?

[CannonFodder]

I don't agree with this statement. Re-mixing can be totally unrelated to sampling. For instance: think of the latest re-mix of the Beatles album "Let It Be" called "Let It Be - Naked".

The producer George Martin took the original multi-track masters and re-mixed them. He changed the EQ and emphasis of some of the parts, turned up other parts that weren't as prominenent in the original mixes (i.e. Billy Preston's keyboard), and turned down or shut off other tracks (the Phil Spector orchestrations). The resulting tracks were the same length as the originals, but sounded different due the the "re-mix" on the board. I suppose you could also call what he did a re-master in some elements.

So George Martin taking the original tape reals and putting them onto a different medium is not sampling in your book?

[CannonFodder]

ral-clan wrote:

So George Martin taking the original tape reals and putting them onto a different medium is not sampling in your book?

When you're burning a copy of a CD in your computer or ripping it to your I-pod, do you tell people you are making a "sample"?

No, because I am not creating a new piece of music.

No. In George Martin's case I'd have to say that what he did is just archiving or making a transfer recording.  In fact, there's already a word for this action in audio/video tech circles - it's called a 'dub'.

A sample, to me, is a snippet or phrase of audio which can then be be used as a musical instrument in its own right.

To you it may be that, but to millions more it doesn´t.  Majority rules, you know that.

i.e. a drum loop, or a brass hit, or a 1 or 2 bar bass phrase, or a James Brown "Yeeeahh!".  That sort of thing.

Otherwise, I could call the entire contents of a CD a "sample", the entire contents of my i-pod a "sample" or a whole library's audio section a "sample".  The work "sample" just gets watered down and meaningless if it is given no boundaries.

Please use a p2p app and get hold of ¨Raving I´m Raving¨ by Shut Up and Dance, then get hold of ¨Walking In Memphis¨.

Please listen to both then tell me what you think SUAD did to make ¨Raving I´m Raving¨.

[CannonFodder]

ral-clan wrote:
It will be difficult for me to get the songs you suggested, although I'm very curious to hear them (I only have dial up).

When you're burning a copy of a CD in your computer or ripping it to your I-pod, do you tell people you are making a "sample"?
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No, becasue I am not creating a new piece of music.

So the very act of George transferring the old fragile multi-track reels to a hard-disc so he would then have something to work from is sampling then?  I think that's a bit of a stretch.  It's not like he was going to cut or paste phrases from the digitized tracks....

To you it may be that, but to millions more it doesn´t. Majority rules, you know that.

If you're talking about majority rules, I think most people out there would agree with me that this was simply a digital transfer for backup purposes.  I think I'd be hard-pressed to find a single studio tech who though he or she was "sampling" (in the hip-hop sense of the word) by transferring old reels to hard drive for a remix/remastering job.

Based on most of the feedback and outrage I've seen on forums about this Timbaland controversy, I'd say that my definition of what sample vs. a rip is shared by a lot of people out there.

Mostly the opinions of people without knowledge of music technology and terminology.  So yes, the majority would probably agree with you.

Ask the opinion of people who do have such knowledge and the answer would be different.

Raving I´m Raving

The WMA link is broken, streaming RealAudio version here

Should be ok on dialup.