An executioner explains

[CannonFodder]

metalman wrote:

CannonFodder wrote:

metalman wrote:

CannonFodder wrote:

I am confused. Beheading murderers would be civilized if it was performed in America?

Long drop hanging would be the traditional American method. Receint innovations were the electric chair and lethal injection.

Beheading is a French and Islamic traditional method.

The British method of hanging, drawing and quartering for High Treason is what is being refered to as "cruel and unusual punishment" in the US Constitution:

“That you be drawn on a hurdle to the place of execution where you shall be hanged by the neck and being alive cut down, your privy members shall be cut off and your bowels taken out and burned before you, your head severed from your body and your body divided into four quarters to be disposed of at the King’s pleasure.”

...

Mary Blandy's uttered the famous words, "for the sake of decency, gentlemen, don't hang me high". (April the 6th, 1752)

That is an horrific way to die too.

But you still haven't answered the question.

Would beheading murderers be civilized if it was performed in America?

The fairness of the legal system is the what determines "civilized", not the method.

As you have just repeated yourself, I shall reciprocate. Again.

But you still haven't answered the question.

Would beheading murderers be civilized if it was performed in America?

[CannonFodder]

metalman wrote:

CannonFodder wrote:

An *illegal* cruel and unusual punishment

Angel Nieves Diaz was sentenced to death in 1986 for the murder during a robbery of bar manager Joseph Nagy in Miami on December 22nd, 1979. Angel Nieves Diaz, while robbing The Velvet Swing topless club with two accomplices, shot manager Joseph Nagy with a silencer-equipped gun.  Diaz had a long criminal history including a murder conviction and an escape from prison in his native Puerto Rico and another prison escape in Connecticut.

This cut'n'paste is relevant to the question, how exactly?[/quote]

consider his crime(s). he wasn't worried about cruel and unusual when he committed his crimes.
[/quote]

What he has done is not the issue here.  The issue is that your legal system says that the method used to execute him is illegal.

Would it be civilised to chop his head off with a sword?

[CannonFodder]

metalman wrote:

CannonFodder wrote:

But you still haven't answered the question.

Would beheading murderers be civilized if it was performed in America?

Beheading may be accomplished, with an axe, sword, or knife, or by means of a guillotine.

The guillotine was considered (19th century) for use in the United States as a legal method of execution before introduction of the electric chair. Audiences to French guillotinings told numerous stories of blinking eyelids, moving eyes, movement of the mouth.

Historically execution by beheading uses a sword (or axe) was considered the "honourable" way to die for an aristocrat.  If the executioner was clumsy, multiple strokes might be required to sever the head.

Only Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Qatar now execute by beheading with the sword, but only Saudi Arabia is known to carry out the sentence: a curved, single-edged sword is used.

Long drop hanging occasionally resulted in unintentional decapitation, such as "Black Jack" Tom Ketchum in New Mexico in 1901. His head was sewn back onto his body for burial.

The french (considered by some the most civilized society) had beheadings by guillotine until 1981.

The fairness of the legal system is the what determines "civilized", not the method of execution.

CannonFodder wrote:

But you still haven't answered the question.

Would beheading murderers be civilized if it was performed in America?

[CannonFodder]

metalman wrote:

CannonFodder wrote:

What he has done is not the issue here.  The issue is that your legal system says that the method used to execute him is illegal.

Would it be civilised to chop his head off with a sword?

Each state determines what method it will use for capital punishment. The US Constitution only prohibits "Cruel and Unusual".

Lethal injection used to execute Angel Diaz is still legal in Florida. Gov Bush created a commission to review the state's lethal injection procedure to avoid missing anymore veins. (better technique).

A Judge in California imposed a moratorium on executions in California, declaring that California's method of lethal injection runs the risk of violating the constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

The guillotine is the French approved "civilised" way to remove heads.  The English used an axe or a sword to behead.

None of these methods are "Cruel and Unusual".

That's as maybe, but "Would beheading murderers be civilized if it was performed in America?"

[CannonFodder]

metalman wrote:

Karlos wrote:
@Cannonfodder

CannonFodder wrote:

metalman wrote:
...
The guillotine is the French approved "civilised" way to remove heads.  The English used an axe or a sword to behead.

None of these methods are "Cruel and Unusual".

That's as maybe, but "Would beheading murderers be civilized if it was performed in America?"

I think he said yes.

one word answers not allowed!

;-)

In your own words "Would beheading murderers be civilized if it was performed in America?" (No more than 200wds)

[CannonFodder]

KThunder wrote:
you are pushing to see if there is some type of double standard arent you. do you dislike americans?

i think most of us are on the same page here. beheadings are quick, clean, and painless (there were lots of debates for years and the best scientists could say was that there was likely no pain)

parading the head or headless body around afterwards would not be civilized. but i think the term civilized has been thrown around a bit without definition. why dont you define it for us cannonfodder

To me, "Civilized" is sitting down with a nice cup tea, a plate of Hobnobs and watching a good Attenborough documentary on the Beeb.

Anyone who says otherwise is just a common pleb.

[CannonFodder]

nadoom wrote:
hobnobs mmmm. its a buscuit but it is the king of buscuits, damn i want some now, but tescos is closed

Bloody unions! How dare they demand decent working hours for their staff?  Bloody plebs.

[CannonFodder]

KThunder wrote:

CannonFodder wrote:

To me, "Civilized" is sitting down with a nice cup tea, a plate of Hobnobs and watching a good Attenborough documentary on the Beeb.

Anyone who says otherwise is just a common pleb.

ok so when you ask if beheading would be civilized if done in america we all have to say no because it has nothing to do with tea and telly?

i like tea, but i dont know quite what hobnobs are and i dont like most documentaries. so am i partly civilized?

hobnobs hmmmm dont sound particularly appetizing, anything like spotted dick?[/quote]

Are you American or do you just live there?

My decision on whether you are civilized will have to be postponed until I know, as it is a known empirical fact that Americans cannot make tea properly.

That said, only the British, the Pakistani's, the Indians and Bangladeshi's seem to able to make decent tea, so you are not alone if it is the case that you are indeed American.

[CannonFodder]

JaXanim wrote:
As I understand it, Hobnobs are an American concept, formulated as they are with large stick-in-the-teeth pieces of oat husks. As you know, America has always been partial to its husks. The purportedly more civilised British, on the other hand, were far more content, from the historical perspective, with the smoother, rounder textures of Rich Tea and Crawfords Digestive.

It seems then, that the question of who is the more civilised nation has been blurred, perhaps irrevocably, by the very priciples the British extoll to define themselves. What a dilemma this is.

JaX

Who said I was British?

And oat biscuits are a delicacy belonging to the Scots (eg Part of Britain) not the USA. :-P

[CannonFodder]

metalman wrote:

CannonFodder wrote:

My decision on whether you are civilized will have to be postponed until I know, as it is a known empirical fact that Americans cannot make tea properly.

Make tea, add lots of ice, very refreshing!
Drink it by the gallon.
 :cheers:
 :lol:
 :-P

Dear God!! :-o

[CannonFodder]

btw i believe the original traditions would be from asia and since brits have tea differently than most asians i would say you fouled the traditions first.

Why do you keep accusing me of being British?

[CannonFodder]

metalman wrote:

GadgetMaster wrote:

Yes...quite disgusting!....... Savages aren't they!!?.  :lol:  

Us Brits we even repair aeroplanes with teapots (How British is that!) and these Americans choose to desecrate our traditions with foul recipes :roll:

Concern after Nimrod aircraft 'teapot fix'

American Heritage Dictionary - nim·rod   (nĭm'rŏd')  
 
   1.  A person regarded as silly, foolish, or stupid.
   2.  also Nimrod A hunter.

:lol:

Nimrod was the grandson of Ham, and the great grandson of Noah.

Don't you Americans know your Bible?