**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Hear about the Book Coming out "Commodore: The Amiga Years" (June 2017)

As I was looking for resources with my issues, I stumbled up on this book that is coming out in.

https://www.amazon.ca/Commodore-Amiga-Years-Brian-Bagnall/dp/0994031025/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489285854&sr=8-1&keywords=commodore+amiga+book

The previous Book "Commodore: A Company on Edge" came out in 2010.
Paper copy cost $176, but Ebook just $23

https://www.amazon.ca/Commodore-Company-Edge-Brian-Bagnall/dp/0973864966/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=96NSM90CVNR60YJ01HEP

I've re-kindle my interest in Amiga History, since I'm building a piece it.

I might get the E-book for stress relief reading during this Project. (The cable isn't going to be enough )

[wbrejnia]

Kickstart ROM Switcher (Need one to continue Build)

I have many loose ends to finish up my build but I want to try Workbench 1.3, AmigaOS.

Still want Kickstart 1.2 ROM for Game Floppy Boots on Gotek, and just to be able to load WB1.2 for Retro sake.

I don't want to keep manually changing ROMs which requires taking out Power Supply, and I'm going to break something eventually.

Amigakit doesn't appear to have the Classic ROM Switcher available anymore
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=947

The newer Flash ROM Switcher is pricey but also not available yet
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1280

So I placed my name on a waiting list for this Switcher on AmiBay.
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?60790-A500-A2000-Automatic-Kickstart-Switcher-New-project!/page55

[wbrejnia]

Okay, will copy the pages...

The Amiga has a 68000 cpu...
The Amiga 2000 also has a co-proccesor slot for "speedup", cards with the cpu 68020 or 68030 or the cpu 68040, leading up to the 68060.
Other features were memory and scsi controllers (a handful of ide add on too)

Thanks.  Looking Forward to any tidbit clues that might be the manual.

And as Far as Accelerator Cards.  I was never exposed to the technology.  I assume the Vampire2 is the 68060 you are referring to.  
I don't need acceleration at this point, just need a hard drive.  But the Vampire give you both.

I got an IDEA. (Might not work, but worth Trying)

Since I have no idea why my Bridgeboard install steps can't get past the DJMOUNT and the FORMAT, why not skip that Step outside the of A2000.

--> I can't move the RLL drive into my Window 10 PC
--> I can't run WinUae on my 486 (Can I ?)

--> BUT I can move the HARD DRIVE IMAGE on the SD Card into my Windows 10 Machine, and access it via WinUAE
----------> Run the Workbench Format command on that Paritition
----------> Then move back into AMIGA all Formatted, with a OS

As shown below to be clear:




I've never used WinUAE, except couple days ago to take a Copy of my Kickstart and WB 1.2 and load it.  

Shouldn't be to hard to mount the SD cards as a Hard DISK drive.

[wbrejnia]

FIGURE IT OUT ALL   (PC-BOOT/Amiga HD) issues. (Janus Versions have subtle variations)

** I wouldn't have had any of these issues if I had an Amiga Hard Drive, but I don't  (YET) **

*** THIS IS MIND BOGGLING. **
* I don't expect anyone to understand this, by  reading this post. You need to see the testing **

So I thought I was going crazy over last long while, and didn't know what I was doing.
I thought I may have HW issues, etc.

Hardly the truth.  
Everything in previous posts makes 100% sense to me now.
EVERYTHING IS WORKING as DESIGNED!!

This is what made me understand it all.

When trying to create a lo-Tech SD card Parition to Take to WinUAE, I didn't put in the WD-Controller/RLL drive.

This message came up, which I've seen before (INSERT Volume "WORK")



-> I investigated the Janus Install created WB disk to find that it has an "ABoot.ctrl" file.
-> In that ABoot file is a hard file entry to WORK:PDDrives/DriveC
--------> ** Disk was created from a Fresh/Untoched Factory Workbench 1.2 Disk **
--------> ** Workbench Disk was modified by Janus 2 Install Disk **
--------> ** I DID NOT CREATE THIS FILE, Janus 2 Install DID **

-> This is very similar to my WOrking Lo-Tech Workbench (Janus 1)
------> Janus-1 Workbench disk boots the Lotech (C: drive).  
------> Janus 2 does not Boot (just picks up the Lotech C: drive).

So what I've discovered is the various versions of Janus changed over time.

-> THE BRILLIANT AMIGA Engineers evolved JANUS over time as Computers/Peripherals Became available.
-> And left me to solve this undocumented technical Version-Mix MAZE.

Each version of Janus does things slightly differently.

ALL THESE PIECES are way to complicated to explain.

But in  nutshell.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-> Janus 1 will Boot my Lotech C: drive (but needs WD/RLL drive present)
-----> Will NOT WORK from COLD AMIGA BOOT (needs CTRL-ALT-DEL BB-PC)
----->  Lotech/SD (must be at C800),  WD/RRL (CANNOT BE INSTALLED)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-> Janus 2 will NOT boot my Lotech C: drive (but will recognize Lotech)
-----> Will WORK from COLD AMIGA BOOT  
-----> WD/RLL (must be at C8000), Lotech/SD (must be at D800)
-----> Boot has to be from A: DRIVE (Floppy DOS boot disk)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And to further complicate things.

----> The WD/RLL drive will simply not Boot DOS (Even on 486)
---------> It will recognize C: drive (in Janus 1, and Janus 2)
-------------> So something is wrong with MBR, etc ()

My thoughts beyond this:

---> This is Certainly Janus Version differences (even within Janus 1)
-------> My original Workbench Disk has a Janus (filesize) smaller than All the Janus Libraries I have downloaded.
------------> So yet another (really early version of Janus) that worked.
------------> Problem is (I can see the Janus.library file but disk is corrupted to get full file)

---> It could even be that I need a BridgeBoard BIOS upgrade to work with newer versions of JANUS

SUMMARY:

Each Version of JANUS probes the "ISA Bus Via Bridgeboard"  the PHSYICAL Drives differently (who know how that is then done for Amiga Partitions within.).

I have some idea's how to solve this (For things to work they way I want).  Getting a HD for Amiga is one.
Stay tuned.

[wbrejnia]

"Off the cuff" thought...

... If you can get the DriveC file from the disk you started the Amiga with back in your university days working with an old version of BB software...

... That should allow you to DJMount properly and get the BB started up from the old hard disk?

Pat, I am thinking like you are....

-> I can't get C: drive back (100%).  When I did image DUMP, it already had MBR missing.  I got everything past 2nd sector.

-> I am going to flip thru every OLD Floppy Workbench I have to find maybe 2nd Copy of that Really OLD JANUS.libary.

Right now I have the WD/RLL drive in the 486, and hacking at it to Patition, Format, and get it DOS Booting. (no luck yet).

[wbrejnia]

I have a site for you - I have no idea if any of these installs will  work, but there is quite a selection to try.... even original Sidercar  install. Also 1.2 for A2000. SOMETHING should work.

https://web.archive.org/web/20101118020635/http://amigadisks.co.cc

All ADFs, good job you have a Gotek.

Pat, you got me excited when I saw these links BELOW.

A2088T Install-Disk V1.02. (327KB). File: _a2088.adf
A2088T Install-Disk V1.02. (327KB). File: _a2088t.adf

THEY LOOK like (TITLE WISE) like my ORIGINAL "BridgeBoard 2088" Floppy which is totally Dead.

But I guess you never clicked on them for Download like I did.
THE LINKS point to the "Wayback Machine" and they are all dead links.

Would have been interesting to see the ADF's.

Thanks for trying.

[wbrejnia]

Thanks Everyone, going to look into all above.

BUT I have an UPDATE.

My RLL Drive might be one reason.  MIGHT BE THE REASON !!
Can't say for sure.

I could not get the RLL drive to AutoBoot in my 486. (so could explain Why things are buggy in Amiga PC)

-> I did LL-Formats (various drive parameters), repartitions, Format, even tried Ranish Boot Loader  (10-12 times, many hours spent)
----> The partitions slice up perfectly.
----> I can install DOS, format /s, read write, Norton, Spirite with 100% success.
----> But it won't Boot as C: drive in 486 (just like in Amiga PC).
----> IT ALL KIND OF POINTS TO THE MBR
-----------> AND more specifically to the Boot Sector

-> What is interesting is depending on Low Level format (Dynamic Parameters), [Works or  Unstable (mbr dissappears) ]
-> Everything has been guesses on parameters (specifically precompensation)
-----> Then I found in that JUMPER Enclyclopedia the parameters for KL330 HD for "Precompesation"  which (SPEFICIALLY) says

Precompensation  ---------------  
For the KL320/330,
precompensation is required on every track from  cylinder 300 to 615.
The optimum amount of precompensation is 12  nonoseconds for both early and late bits.

-----> http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/h/txt/1911.txt

I have been guessing precompesation=[1, and 128, and Non-Dyanmic Defaults].

Going to try one more LL-Format before I give up.

PLAN B: ($10)

---> I found a $10 (local seller)[FONT="] Seagate ST-11R[/FONT] Controller that has jumpers to Address D8000,
which  means I can make the RLL drive a D: drive and Lo-tech become C: Drive

PLAN C: (>$10)

--->  END THIS MISSERY (with 3-in-1 Solution)
--->  For extra Memory and a Hard Disk on Amiga, AND a BOOTABLE (8088 PC)
--->  Get something like one of these as Raffle recommends above
---> http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/impact2000hc8  (This is the User Manual and Install disks I was playing with)


I have to end this HOLD UP Struggle.  It's not fun anymore, and affecting my health (mental, sleep, etc).

The next part of this build will be fun, and productive.

[wbrejnia]

Fair enough. You've got plenty of other projects to get sorted.

If it's not fun anymore, stop and take a nice big holiday. You've already covered miles and miles of effort.

Yes, I took a break away from the Pain In the Ass RLL Drive.

But I did touch the Gotek and the LED Display which was disabled after adding the 2-Line LCD display.

GOTEK Floppy Drive Emulator MOD (3 Digit / 7 Segment LED Display)
--> Reverse Engineered the TM1651 Driver Chip (Serial Signalling, Data Structure, Commands)
-----> http://aitendo3.sakura.ne.jp/aitendo_data/product_img/ic/LED-driver/TM1651_%20V1.2/TM1651_V1.1_EN.pdf
-----> Simple 2 Wire (Data[I/O],ClocK)  driven from Any Aurduino Module

The goal for the final build will be to use the Aurdino MicroController to Display Centrally  the I/O Status  of the Hard Drives (including the Lotek SD Card Access) .

I can also piggy back sense the Gotek Control Buttons, to indicate the SLOT #'s just like originally working.

I now have full control of the display and created this simple animation.

NOTICE THE RLL drive is spinning Backwards

YOU TUBE VIDEO [Gotek LED Display Animation] (Hard to show Animation in Screen Shot)
https://youtu.be/qtPzclKb7rU

It wasn't easy since no documentation, started in Chinese, found a sample for similar Battery LCD module, and then once I had one segment working, the rest was just mapping.
 LCD also has 8 Brightness levels I can control.

Piece of cake compared to the RLL drive.

[wbrejnia]

The MYSTERY of the RLL Drive will be Solved (or Ended) (Got a Seagate ST11R Rll Drive Controller)

I did park the RLL drive issue, but not for long.

I stumbled upon a Local Seller that sells Retro Computing Parts.

He had a Seagate ST11R HD Controller Card for sale (VIA make an offer on Ebay)
http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/c/S-T/20196.htm

I offered $20 including Shipping and got it.

It's worth a last ditch effort for a try/validation.

Jumper Matchable (615-Cyl,5-heads,26-Sectors) to the DK330 RLL Drive, BUT ISA-Bus Address changeble to D8000, so I'll be able to make my RLL drive a "D:" drive.

If it works, then Lo-tech ISA/IDE-SD will become a "C:" drive and Should boot and Possibly DJMOUNT.

I'll have an answer to the Mystery, or simply give up and move on FOR GOOD!!

....And while I wait for the Card to arrive, this arrived....



"The Future was Here" is a book that suits my Build as I futurize this A2000.

Looks like a interesting nostalgic read.  Perfect for a break..

(I also got a replacement Left Shift KEY-CAP, which has been annoying not to have!)

[wbrejnia]

YOU LEARN SOMETHING NEW (EVERYDAY)  Arrgggh! Explained

Look at this picture.  DO YOU SEE ANYTHING WRONG?



Put aside the mess and the danger that something metallic could fall into the Amiga Motherboard (and fry my circuits).

I've been extra careful after one screw fell in.

Sure the monitor could fall over, but it's leaning backwards against the wall.

But there is something else that has been driving me crazy.

I've had discs go corrupt over the last while.
At first I thought it was the OLD 5.25" floppies.  JUST OLD.

But recently after the Gotek MOD work I lost a couple of 3.5" disks.

HERE IS THE REASON WHY!!!!!

Look at the picture again.



The lamp has a transformer in it.  At the base.
Emitting electromagnetic waves!!!

It's been frying (Degaussing) my disks  when I used the Lamp too Close to them.

Even fried the last two disks INSIDE the DRIVE when I put that lamp on top.
I figure it out when I made a new disk and put it back under the lamp.  Poof!! Erased again.

You learn something new everyday. .  
We'll at least I know, and I have a handy DISK ERASER if I need one

Thank God I never put it on top of my Hard to Replace GAME collection Floppy Box.
(Which reminds me,  I better make ADF copies of my Important Stuff)

[wbrejnia]

Computer Museum needs Amigans:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72143

Thanks Raffaele,

I did contact them since they are old computer collectors for their museum displays.
This is about the old Convergent, NGEN box I found in my dad's garage.
I am added to their database for next commitee review.
They may be interested.

[wbrejnia]

INTERESTING Article from 1988 INFOWORLD (Useful to me for new Segate Hard Drive Controller)

So according to Tracking the new Seagate RLL controller will arrive in tomorrow.  It should allow me to end the mystery of the BB DOS boot.

But when I was digging around on the Convergent NGEN computer, I was looking through old Newspaper clippings and came across this.

With Proper Reference since Copyright INFOWORLD

https://books.google.ca/books?id=bz0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=ngen+convergent+workstation&source=bl&ots=PrGROucX2O&sig=ZKKu8Ie8EY_7rUYrDm9cNSsfzU4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitkuulzeXSAhVl3IMKHackDZIQ6AEIODAG#v=onepage&q=ngen%20convergent%20workstation&f=false



What I highlight above but didn't know 100% is when I change controller from Western Digital to Segate, the RLL HARD drive format will not be recognized by Seagate HD Controller.

Good thing the new controller has the same BIOS Low Level Format tool.

At least I know and won't be struggling with another head scratcher.

[wbrejnia]

Yeah you definitely should low level format when you change the controller. Depending on the two controllers involved, the new controller may refuse to read/write the disk or it might appear to work but give you random read/write errors in the future.

If there is a bad block list printed on the drive then you should enter it if you are asked.

The jury is out whether Steve Gibson is crazy or a snake oil salesman.

We'll the Seagate ST-11R Controller Card just arrived.  Look in great shape for the pennies I paid.  

I still I will test in the 486 Machine.  Don't want to blow the Amiga up since to me it's priceless at this point. (I'm actually putting a power monitor on the Amiga to watch how much I push the Power supply)
- Will do LL format.  After setting the Jumpers to match the RLL (Cylinders,head,sectors)
- With luck new Controller Type (Seagate) may fix my MBR/Bootblock problem (mystery).



Steve Gibson treated me very nice.  He provided a free copy of Spinrite V3 and it worked nicely to prove my RLL drive is defect free (Nicely stressed), just like the outside of the unit shows.

[wbrejnia]

Seagate ST-11R (ROCKS!!)  Hard to believe but 486 Boots from RLL Drive

I started off to a rocky start.  The 486 would crash in POST BIOS.

I switched jumps, and still crash.

I thought the card was bad.
I almost gave up.  Felt quite depressed for wasting more money on another DEAD END.

But then I remember when I tried to Flash the ISA/IDE Adapter, I played with BIO setting to turn off SHADOW ram at D800.  So I did that and one other BIOS change that I can't remember.

The next boot attempt BIOS picked up the Seagate Controller at the BIOS POST.

I then hooked up the RLL HardDrive with Ribbon Cables.

Next boot the Seagate BIOS picked he drive up right away, and went AUTOMATICALLY into a SETUP menu (BIOS driven).

--> The setup menu is way nicer than the Western Digital (Color Menus, Intuitive Setup)

The Seagate card was designed for Segate HD models so a Limited  List of drive were available (Just like Raffaele said above).  A quick lookup on the Jumper WEbsite found a drive matching my ALoak DL300. (I picked it).

--> The drive LL-formatted perfectly
--> The drive FDISK nicely
--> The drive "Format c: /s" perfectly

Next reboot, Floppy out.



YES that is a C: drive Boot off RLL-DRIVE!!! (Amazing!! I couldn't get that to happen with WesternDigital Controller)

What is interesting about the Segate controller is the way it treats the RLL drive.  I hear sounds I haven't heard before (Drive heads tweeking, whistling).

Amazing.

NEXT is to POP this setup into the AMIGA. (And keep fingers DOUBLE CROSSED for a bit more GOOD LUCK)

---> Will the Bridgeboard PC boot C: Drive?
---> Will the Amiga (FORMAT JH0: /  JANUS) pick up the 2nd Paritition (Adisk)?

Have to go out but will be back later to find out.

[wbrejnia]

Best ($10) I spent so far!!!

Here is what the Seagate Onboard BIOS Low Level Formatting Tool looks like.




And here is the best part.  

Too EARLY to Cheer Full Success...
....since this is only on the 486, not Amiga Yet.

But I threw in the Lotech ISA/IDE Adapater and Everything works together with a C: Drive DOS Boot.



I needed to confirm everything in 486, to prevent any Head scratching if it doesn't on AMIGA/BB PC.

-> It won't be a total disappointment if it doesn't work (C: Bootable from SD Card/Lotech).
-> I'd be happy just that have a C: Drive off (RLL-drive) and then Transfer DOS to D: (sdcard)

I CAN CLEARLY HEAR THE (Seagate Controller Working Hard at Cylinder 0 to get MBR).  
---> Seems it may be something mechanical or multiple-retries needed to get it MBR/Bootblock.  
---> WD controller gave up too easy. (I kept mentioning talking about how the LED would PULSE like it was trying)

[wbrejnia]

THE BIG TEST (Seagate HD Controller Card in the AMIGA)

It would take me less than 10 minutes to safely move over the Segate Controller with RLL drive and Lotech into Amiga for a test.

But I am



Yes, I am Afraid to find out that things won't work like in the 486 PC since there are many differences.

--> Maybe nothing will work with Bridgeboard BIOS.
--> Maybe C: drive won't Boot
--> Maybe I'll still need to do the CTRL-ALT-DEL hack workaround.
--> Maybe there will be ISA Address conflicts
--> Maybe PC side will work, but Amiga will still have issues with Janus
--> Some other unforeseen problem like (MBR starts acting up again, etc)

OR MAYBE, just MAYBE everything will work perfectly.

I don't want to know right now if it's bad news.
I rather enjoy this ($10) moment of success rather then get into another big rat hole of debugging.

So I'll work on my Fish Tank Aurdino Doser project which I got code finished over weekend for Pump Calibration Algorithm.



All that's left is to code in the dosing scheduler logic.

Then I'll pop in the Lo-Tech and Seagate-RLL drive for Big Test that could end my parts and pieces hunt, so I can really start the put-together Build of the A2000.

Then start the Software installs.