**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Thanks Dandy.

I actually was thinking about you last night when reading the details of the Hard Drive Manual( Bridgeboard section)..

I think your comment earlier was correct.
You might be 100% correct in your statement that "you can't Autoboot PC Bridgeboard side".

I am still testing, but I think I stumbled on a Modern Technology solution with the ISA/IDE Adapter (MS DOS boot).  
It would have not been possible in 1990 (no Lotech Adapter).

So the Miracle solution I stumbled upon is thanks to Pat for suggesting to me getting a Lotech ISA/IDE Adapter.

I think my DOS Boots off the SD card only works because the Lotech Adapter doesn't work on power up.  
It tricks the Amiga to think no Hard drive at power up, so leaves Autoboot enabled.  
Then a 8086 reset (thru Icon, or CTRL-ALT-Delete), activates the Lotech-HardDrive, then reboots PC via AutoBoot[enabled].. ( with emtpy Aboot.cnfg file).

If the lotech adapter initialized on power up my 8086, I would have to rebooted PC with a Floppy.

What this means is I'll never be able to boot 8086-BB-PC off the Western Digital/RLL Drive (because it picks up on power up)
---> I was thinking a trick solution (Have a mechanical power ON/OFF-switch to RLL drive.  So during power up, no RLL drive.  Then turn on RLL drive after power up to enable Autoboot)

Not a problem, SD card is way better.

I will find out soon with more testing.  
If JANUS doesn't pick up the hard drive Amiga Parition on Power up (Lotech), so I'll never be able to create a working Amiga Partition off the 8086 Hard drive.  I can't CTRL-ALT-DELETE to re-initialize JANUS.library load (but there may be trick, a script to run DJmount later, but I think Janus.library load is key...We'll see)

IS THERE ARE WAY to LOAD "Expansion folder" (Janus.library driver) after Workbench starts up?  I think dynamic is not possible.

I think my choice will be One or the other, never both (Amiga & PC Hard drives together, on ONE-HARD-DRIVE).  

Unless I find a another trick. [like the power switch I mentioned above]
Which bring me to an IDEA.  I am installing the Aurdiuno controller for the Gotek Display.
With a Relay I could automatically delay the power up of RLL drive, or SD card adapter.  (FUture project)

Yes, a Hard drive in Zorro II slot and Hard drive in ISA slot would work to solve both. (Maybe).
--> But I don't have an Amiga Hard drive.
--> TOO BAD THERE IS NO LO-Tech-[ZorroII/IDE] Adapter. (That would be Awesome).  I guess the Vampire-II is that, plus more.

[wbrejnia]

I need a decent FileManager for Amiga

I don't expect modern MS windows Quality, but for me to do my testing and build some Custom Workbench disks (From bits an peices of other disks)
Some kind of  need a GUI FileManager for Amiga.

-> Something to look at 2/3 Floppies side by side and be able to copy (multiple files) from one to another.
-> Create directories (nice to have)
-> Delete files
-> Maybe see file sizes ( Really nice to have)
-> Doesn't have to be mouse drive, could be even cursor driven.

This will help a lot.

QUICK UPDATE:

--> I tried that GVP HD Sofware disk (Bridgeboard install tool).  
------>** Nothing New **
------> It doesn't do much except copy of the basic Janus/and PCwindow Files (From the standard PCinstall disk)
-------> There was only one extra step at the end that offer to create a HardFile on the HardDrive.

--> I tried the Version Command (but in WB 1.2 it just shows Workbench/Kickstart Versions
--> I assume the Version name FILE syntax is for Amiga OS (may try WinUae with AmigaOS to peek Versions at my ADF copy of floppies [bit a transfer work]

--> Finally got back to my Fish Tank (TO DO) List
-------> Things were getting bad with all the Amiga Distractions
-------> Did some long overdue maintenance the Main Kitchen Tank.  All clean and tidy now.

[wbrejnia]

** [1 BIG breakthrough ] , [ 2 Important Discoveries ] , and a  [ Confirmation of Suspicion ] **

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JANUS:

Some really good progress with Running the Newest Bridgeboard Janus Install disk.

- Basically I found a root cause to many of my problems of the past.
- It's clearly seen in past screen shots, but nobody noticed, and my lack of knowing/seeing a properly working  system was the problem.
----> The Janus Handler wasn't matched with the Janus Library
---------> I know JANUS.library is one file, but where is the Handler File

Now that Both are matched (Jlink works), but (DJMOUNT doesn't ** YET**)



While  jumping around to compare various Janus BB disk, I discovered that  there is more than one PC-Window program.   The newest version works the  worst for me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AUTO BOOT (DOS PC - Rll Drive vs ISA/IDE):
--> I put back the WD-RLL drive into Amiga.  
--> I put in the Last Working Workbench Disk. The one that worked with Lo-Tech SD card AUTO BOOT  (Ctrl-Alt-Del).
--------->  RLL (Boot ready) Hard Drive won't boot for C:  
------- >>>>> THIS CONFIRMS "Dandy's" Statement.  PC Drive cannot AutoBoot Boot DOS from (Normal) Hard Disk
------- >>>>> THIS CONFIRMS The LoTech ISA BIOS (Init) Delay is a Failure that Make PC AutoBoot after CTRL-ALT-DEL and EMPTY(Aboot.ctrl) file (Good Abnormal)

What this means:

---> I can never install the WD-Controller/RLL drive if I want to boot BB-PC without a 5.25" floppy. (Don't need it with ISA/IDE anymore)
====>  I either sell it, or do A Post (HD Power up) after systems are stable (if that works..No Idea yet)

---> If I don't get the [Amiga-DJMOUNT] <-> [ BB-PC] <-> [ ISA/IDE-SD ] working,  I won't have a Bootable Amiga from HARD DISK (Even from Kickstart 1.3/AmigaOS3.1)
--------> My ULTIMATE GOAL won't be achieved to build a FLOPPY less [Amiga/BB-PC] (Except for Gotek Solution, but very limited on Storage SPACE)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next Step:

With all libraries good.  Time to do (One-More-Time) all the Steps of the Bridgeboard Installation Guide for an AmigaOS Boot off PC-Hard-Disk (Fdisk,Adisk,Format)
.....

[wbrejnia]

L directory for Amiga handler files and file systems. Of boot disk.

Thanks, I will look.

It  looks from the "matched library and handler" screen shot that you tried  to Jlink the C drive but the Janus setting didn't match the hard disk  partition contents.

I am pretty sure you are correct.  That is the first thing that came to my mind.
There could be a good reason.   After giving up on THIS RLL drive (as a Amiga Boot Drive).  

I created for experimenting:

[Primary-Partition #1, DOS-Active ( C: ) ]
[Primary-Partition #2, DOS-Extended,DOS-Logical ( D: ]
[Primary-Partition #3, Amiga, Not-Active]

The bridge board manual says only Create [#1] [#3] above as [#1][#2]

That could be the issues as Janus (Janus.Library & DJmount) look for the Amiga Partition is some set way.

So I need to re-partition the RLL HD with (fdisk,adisk) Fresh, and Try Again.

Perhaps they can be incompatible between  different versions of Janus... Not sure how compatible they are between  different versions of DOS either.

Yup, that's the whole headache, mix matching the various versions.

Too bad my original BB-2088 3.25" Floppy is DEAD, and I don't have the 5.25" BB-DOS Floppy that came with my Bridge board.

I was hoping the "VERSION" command would help, but it doesn't for WB1.2

[wbrejnia]

:cool::cool: Slick Darkage :cool: Really Slick  :cool::cool:

Exactly what I need to continue my Sherlock Homes work.

Watson, will be impressed with this next Post!

Thanks

[wbrejnia]

***********************************
** MAY BE Biggest Breakthrough So Far!! **
***********************************

I was going to RE-PARTITION and FORMAT the RLL Hard Drive in the Amiga BB PC Side.

--> To do only two partitions, hoping DJMOUNT would pick up the 2nd Amiga Partition.

But S!#T , I spent so much time on the 486 copying stuff into it Partion D: (right in the Middle, just below the AMIGA Partition....So no way to preserve).

So I was going for first attempt, SUBSTITUTE the Lo-TECH-SD Combo.
But I was SURE that wouldn't Inititiatize on COLD START (since I tested a few times).   So pointless.

But I installed the Lo-Tech Adapter, and thought WTF, let's give a Boot and see what happens.  

TA-DAH!!!

I did not expect this. (REMEMBER, the Left Side shows Lo-Tech Booting ** BUT (NEVER EVER) from COLD BOOT, it took a 2nd CTRL-ALT-DEL boot to Trigger Lotech **)



What is shows is more than you initially think.
I'm still trying to digest this info what I may do next.

--> First to make this happen I have to change the jumper on Lo-Tech Adress to D800h.  
-------> The Default of C800 is the same as the Western Digital Controller.
-------> So both Controller would Conflict. (This was my grief originally on the 486).  I LEARNED.

What happened is by having the Western Digtial Controller and the Lo-Tech Adapter in the ISA Slots, the BB-PC did an Initialization of the Lo-Tech Adapter.

--> But the best part is that I didn't have to CTRL-ALT-DELETE to trigger the Init, like before.
--> THE INIT HAPPENED ON COLD BOOT!!

This could be a possible Game Changer, since if we have an Init on COLD BOOT.  Then JANUS might pick up one of the Physical DISKS.

And if it does, then if I get DJMOUNT Working, then I'll have a DOUBLE BOOTING AMIGA (NO FLOPPIES NEEDED)

--> It still didn't boot C: drive, but it Can't since C: is on the 2nd Physical Disk.
---> This was a still a boot off a 5.25" Floppy
--> DOS assigns C: to the First Physical Disk.

----> There could be few ways to achieve my goal.
----------> Jumper the RLL to DISK 2, If Possible via W-Digital C-Board
----------> Some other way.  I'm still trying to digest this.


HERE ARE THE FDISK AND A DISKS OUTPUTS



With this setup I got a Ton of Space.  Way to much for the PC MS DOS side.

--> I never thought I could keep the RLL Drive.
-------> Now I can.  Kind of nice to keep it in the Amiga RETRO Time Capsule

BUT THIS MAKES "Solving the DJMOUNT" and "Format of the PC Partition from the AMIGA" a MUST!

----> "FLOPPY DISK FREE" AMIGA/PC/AMIGA (Gotek, and Hard Drive(s) )

ONWARD.  Carefully!

-> But think about this.  If this Proves there is an INIT on the ISA BUS
-> It means there must be an attempt to boot the RLL Drive
---------> I see it happening with the LED blinking during Cold Start.
---> Why doesn't that RLL C: Drive BOOT?  
---------> Maybe it's the FORMAT?  MBR?  BOOTBLOCK?
---------------> TIME TO CALL 1-800-RANISH!! (before I re-partition)
---------------> And compare the FIRST Potention C: Drive Partitions
-----------------------> Lotech-SDcard (which Boots)
-----------------------> WD-RLL (which does not Boot)

Love Ranish!

[wbrejnia]

WHY DO I Spend So much Time Doing these Posts with DETAILED IMAGES?

Let me explain....

It's my way of thinking things through.  Digesting the info, and putting together the bits an pieces.

I would have never have gotten this far without creating my diagrams.
When I spend the time to organize the SLIDES ...It sticks in my head.
Better than on Scrap pieces of paper cluttering my desk.

I teach my kids that best way to study is to write something at least once.  Better than reading or thinking.  (I read that somewhere in a Article...never wrote it down. .....  Now I did. ).

Yeah, when I finish this Journey, I'll summarize the FULL WORKING SETUP.
Nice and compact.

But I need this.

And I think it helps give clear Information to all of you on the Forum to bump-assist me along they way.

THANK you ALL !

BTW.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--> I got an thought after writing above Post.  
--------> Since the Lo-tech can handle TWO drives.
--------> I can just ribbon cable on the IDE-COMPACT FLASH ADAPTER
--------> Just make it a SLAVE
---------------> Why not.  I paid for it.  Sitting on desk collecting Dust.

A 8086 XT PC
----->  Running MS DOS 6.2
-----> 16 GB  + 512Mb + 33Mb  of Disk Space
-------------> Across 3 Physical drives  (SD card) + (CF) + (RLL Hard Disk)  
----------------------> , 8x Partitions
------------------------------->  and possibly a 1x BOOTING Amiga Partition.  (I hope!)
---> And access to A GOTEK!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Retro Meets the Future-Present......Cool) :cool:

[wbrejnia]

Im still waiting for that book of yours

The way things are going, THE BOOK is going to be a while.

I'm thinking of releasing THE (YouTube) MOVIE I keep mentioning.

Is anyone interested?  

Really Cool.  Even my son was amazed and hung around when I was shooting it.  

(Hint.  SpinRite/RLL Unboxed.)

[wbrejnia]

Encyclopedia of JUMPERS (Really Handy)

I have been fooling around with various Jumpers on my HD Controller and Hardrives to get things working (multiple disks).

Found this Resource that has almost every piece of StoneAge HW ever made, and the jumper Settings.

http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/

[wbrejnia]

I can't figure this out and May Give up Soon (one more try)

I tried to re-partition the RLL Hard Drive, and as soon as I did a "fdisk /mbr" it when back to the usual (problem behavior...ADISK doesn't pick up partition.  
I was hoping this would work for getting JAnus/DJmount picking up the PC-DOS side HD partition.

All bad like weeks ago.
 At least this time I know how to restore to working.
 ---> LL-Format and  a Clean FDISK and new MBR, then ADISK right away.

This is something to do this FAT versions, and MBR.
When I run Ranish against the booting SD Card Drive, it is Fat-16.
The RLL drive is FAT-12 even thought I used same MSDOS6.2 on both.

My last two attempts will be:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ RLL and Lotek DRIVES in 486 ]
To take out the RRL-Drive, and Lo-tech-SD and put into 486.  
Things behaved the same way last time.  (But BIOS is totally different).
I keep blaming JANUS or BB-BIOS for the problem (it may not be either).

--> If I get things to work on 486, and move over to Amiga.  
--------> That will tell me something.
--> If it doesn't work on 486, then fine. (End of story).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ Try GOTEK on Bridgeboard PC as 5.25" Floppy ]
I am thinking of moving the GOTEK over to the Amiga PC
-------> (5.25" disk drive has a different Crimp connector, Try the regular Floppy cable from one of my PC's )
THe HxC support 5.25" disk formats.  Not sure if 320K which is all BB handles.
-> Boot from A: drive.  (Gotek)
-> Make RLL C: Drive
---> And user this new DOS thing I learned from the GVP User manual
---> set comspec=c:\command.com
-----------> This transfers the DOS interpreter from the A: drive to C: drive

Then see if AMIGA OS picks up the C: drive (Amiga Partition) via DJmount
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

That will end of this never ending, mind boggling, pain in the ass issue.

-> If nothing works, ... I won't have a Amiga Hard Drive.  
-> Gotek AMIGA Booting will have to do.

This is is not fun anymore

[wbrejnia]

GOTEK ( 5.25" 360K Floppy Image)

Nothing comes easy for me.

Gotek comes with a pile of ready BLANK floppy images.

Even PC DOS 3.5" 1.44Mb,  etc

But no 5.25 360K which I need for Amiga BB PC.

So I need to find the Paramater for a 5.25" 360K, and then just PUSH "Create a Empty Floppy"

[wbrejnia]

For me this thread has been a fun, memory filled read!

But, why didn't you just read the manual/user guide?  janus pages 47- 51?

In it it tells you step by step how to setup a system disk for the amiga

Glad you enjoyed the painful Journey thru Retro Times.
There were some good moments, and hoping for One More.

However which manual are you referring to page 47-51.
If you have the magic step you would be my hero.

I have read every Manual I could find, English, German.
The best steps are in this manual http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/A2088-A2286.pdf

Pages 58-74

I've done these steps (4 Methods) many times.

The only one that works for me is the HARD FILE (AutoBoot) off an AMIGA Filesystem. Page 58.  I use that for the way it was designed, and also for a trick to get my C: drive (SD Card) to Boot.

The other methods like in Appendix E:  Don't work.  They should, but they don't work  for me.  

There are many reasons why things haven't worked.
I've fix most of my issues and am close...

But not quite there.

[wbrejnia]

I GIVE UP on Janus (For DJmount and AmigaHD off PC-HD)  ** Time to move on **

I gave it one more attempt.

I did everything from Scratch.

I learned that the ExpansionFolder(Janus.library) is what shows up on the PC Boot Window after During BIOS start.

The Janus Library Version and Janus Handler Version are from the Amiga Library that is loaded during Amiga Boot.

Nothing worked cleanly.

I did notice the Divide Overflow that show up (in PC window after running DJmount on Amiga Side), but not on my OLD hacked Workbench disks.

The DHmount HANGS, but even during a HANG  "JH0: Device" show up in the "assign command".

When JH0: shows up it allow the "FORMAT DRIVE JH0: "disk-name" command to start, but hangs.

I did go back to one old HACKed workbench disk, and for some reasons it loads all the way.  Format doesn't work.

There is some underlying reason for things not working as they should.
It like when I trying to get the RLL drive to work (it was a flipped cable, and not matter what I did, it wouldn't work, till I got cables right)

I even am suspicious that I should remove the Math Co-Processor on the Bridge Board.  Could that be the Divide by Zero Error.

I don't know.

Here are my Install Testing results:




Time to move on and build the Amiga with many good pieces I have.
--> But no HD on Amiga Side
--> The Gotek will be a workaround, but not that great since Booting WB disk will constantly be asked for. (2nd Floppy will be fine, but not Ideal)

Next step will be to see if Gotek HxC will work as 5.25" Floppy replacement for BB PC

[wbrejnia]

I was going to copy the pages in my manual (which is different then yours)
But if you are done (I understand)

My suggestion is get a hard drive controller for the amiga (scsi or ide) but...
Best is a 030/040 (o6o are too hard to find) card with memory and scsi specs!

Well if your manual has something different that might give me a clue, PLEASE POST (so I can spend more countless hours on this Pain in the A__ )

Yes, I think I'll start look at a hard drive controller/HD combo.
IDE would be the best since I could use the spare IDE/Compact Flash card. (I haven't see any on sale recently)

I looked here for a list of possible solutions http://amiga.resource.cx/expansion.html

What exactly is a 30/40/60?.

[wbrejnia]

STRESS Relief for (ME) and the Gotek/AmigaFloppy Drive (Ribbon Cable Too Short)

I've been struggling with the Original Amiga Floppy Cable.

Just too Short for both the A-Floppy and the Gotek.
Gotek won't even reach the Front of the Chassis.

I already bent the Connector pin on the A-Drive once getting Connector on.  

I took a trip to the Local Electronic Supplier.  They had nothing for Ribbon cables.  All modern cables.

Then the store guy pointed out a clearance bin, and I found just want I needed.  
I've never see these kind of cables before.  PULL TAB is great!!
There was only One.  Too bad they didn't have these for the rest of the Amiga Cables.

$4 on Clearance



I put this cable on the Amiga MB, and splice in with the Gold Header pins ($1)

This will give me less stress, and same for the Gotek/Floppy-Drive.

[wbrejnia]

Hear about the Book Coming out "Commodore: The Amiga Years" (June 2017)

As I was looking for resources with my issues, I stumbled up on this book that is coming out in.

https://www.amazon.ca/Commodore-Amiga-Years-Brian-Bagnall/dp/0994031025/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489285854&sr=8-1&keywords=commodore+amiga+book

The previous Book "Commodore: A Company on Edge" came out in 2010.
Paper copy cost $176, but Ebook just $23

https://www.amazon.ca/Commodore-Company-Edge-Brian-Bagnall/dp/0973864966/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=96NSM90CVNR60YJ01HEP

I've re-kindle my interest in Amiga History, since I'm building a piece it.

I might get the E-book for stress relief reading during this Project. (The cable isn't going to be enough )