**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

[HOW TO (Solve/Determine/Isolate) why C: drive Doesn't Boot in AMIGA PC]

The same way I solve the ISA/IDE Adapter ISA HD drive pickup.

I'll put the WD-RLL Controller and Drive into the 486.
It should boot C: drive from there with Partition and Boot DOS installed.

Just like the ISA/IDE Adpater does in there with the IDE-2 Hard Drive.

A) If IT BOOTS, the it the AMIGA PC
B) if it DOES NOT BOOT then it the RLL Drive

Might be something to do with ISA Addressing.  (Those jumpers on the WD controller Card)
Hey, I'm just guessing, since I have no hard facts to go on.
 

[wbrejnia]

WOW!!  All the feedback and ideas.

Dandy, you will be on next Cover of Bridgeboard for Dummies Book Version 1.2.

You guys are amazing.
I have so much to think about, but my next step after being busy last 2 days is.

1) GET OLD KICKSTART 1.2 ROM back into Motherboard.

What kept me busy is.....

- I took apart the whole system, and rebooted things to see error messages
- Like what happens when no bridge board (Janus.library Error)
- Like when no 5.25" disk on Amiga PC (won't boot, from external 3.5")
- I left HD Controller in but didn't hook up Hard disks.
- etc etc (many combination tried to see things broken on purpose)

What I learned is EVERYTHING is working when I put everything back.
*** NO ERROR MESSAGE *** Means Good.

Now I started having some very particular issue with the Hard Drive.
** THIS IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL MY PROBLEMS **

Sometimes the MBR (Master Boot Record of Hard Drive) doesn't get picked up.
->IT IS NOT THE RLL HARD DRIVE (itself)
->IT IS NOT THE Western Digital RLL Controller

->Basically it is intermittent.   The MBR is on the DISK but it doesn't alway get picked up by DOS.
-> DOS loads the MBR into memory ONCE and never goes for it again (based on my reading)
-----> That is why disk will continue to work, even if you wipe out, destroy the MBR.  It is in DOS memory.  JUST DON'T Reboot.
-----> That is why you have to reboot after FDISK Partition Change.  Same for ADISK.

So before when I thought I had a Hard drive problem, I wrote back to MBR and messed it up.  Maybe two years ago and certainly early a few weeks ago.

SO I HAVE EXTENSIVELY TESTED THE HARD DRIVE

First I did a low level format with optimal parameters.
Not a single back sector!!
I learned this because at end of LL Format there is a list of errors and you can format again. List was empty.  RLL drive is ZERO ERROR FREE!!

Norton Disk Utilities (PASSED 100%)
The Norton Tests are very VERY thorough.   Some test (like Calibrate) are very aggressive and make the head go back from First to Last Cylinder very quickly to test response. BOY that make the table shake, but drive passed with high rating.
It checked many many things.  Memory, speed, interleave, Controller Response, etc ,etc ,etc
ALL tests passed 100%.

Next I ran Spinrite
Many similar tests,  even recommended drive is safe for low level format and gave me recommendation to change Interleaving from 4 to 5 to get 560% throughput improvement.  Same recommendation as Norton did.
I even ran the 5 pattern read write test that would run for 6 hours on 32 MB of disk (After 1 hours I stopped it).
Disk and Controller came back PERFECT all tests 100% pass!!
Not a single bit of error anywhere for a 25 year old disk (but used so little.  I probably used it over last two weeks than 20 years).


So it's not the controller, not the Hard drive.
Could it be the cable?  What else to have a MBR intermittently not pick up.
The MBR is in the first sectors of the drive where it was LL-Formatted and extensively tested.

The behavior of the AMIGA PC IS this.
a) Drive light flashes long and slow many times after hard boot and initialization of PC.  
b) Then it give up on C: drive boot and goes to Floppy
c) If MBR is picked up.  The computer is PERFECT
d) If MBR is not picked up, NO MBR means no Partitions, no C: drive nothing
e) I even did a FISK /MBR to write a MBR back.  That works.
g) I made a Norton DiskTOOL rescue disk. I saved MBR, BIOS, and Partitions to a floppy.  So anytime I can load everything back (so don't have to partition, format, install software all over again)

I think this intermittent MBR is also the reason why the ISA/IDE Adapter doesn't work properly.
I think this intermittent behavior is a conflict of some kind.   Again the Wrong Kickstart?  Maybe.
I think why AWRITE and Aread don't work is related
I think why FORMAR JH0: doesn't work is related.
Dandy's many points above make sense.  

I was thinking borrow ribbon cables from 486.  But these cable work fine during hours of DISK Analysis.

WHAT COULD AN INTERMITTENT MBR load be caused by?


IS IT THAT KICKSTART CHIP I bought (EBAY) two years ago just for FUN to Try WORKBENCH 3.1 (that is when I first tried to fix the A2000)
I put it in after I gave up on Hard Drive (two years ago, but now I know my cables were reversed!!)

IS THIS MY PROBLEM (O.S 3.1 Version 40.63)?  
What kickstart is this?  (I just googled "Kickstart version 40.64 O.S 3.1 and nothing comes up  "V40" is Kickstart 3.0 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstart_(Amiga)

Released FOR AMIGA 1200, 4000T (NOT FOR A2000)
I just read that they needed to support SCCI and IDE in the rom so the moved out "workbench.library" from 512K ROM and it has to been on OS Hard drive.
but Amigakit.com sell them for A2000 http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=157


Could explain why some of older disk INSTANTLY CRASH COMPUTER AND go into GURU error.  INSTANTLY as soon as disk goes into drive.

I am putting back original KICKSTART 1.2!!!  TODAY (and since all taken out, I'll put in that Replacement battery I bought)

Then I do more things.

[wbrejnia]

WARNING!


Bridgeboard Software works well with Kickstart and Workbnch 1.2, 1.3, and if I remember well, it works also with Kickstart 2.0.4.

It has some issues with 2.1 and does not work at all with Amiga Kickstart and AmigaOS 3.0 and 3.1 (could generate lots of Guru Meditations at any moment)

I remember my bridgeboard Amiga buddy Giuseppe was forced to bought a Multikickstart card with 3 roms space, putting Kickstart 1.3, 2.0.4 and 3.0 kickstart versions on his A2000.

When he wanted using Bridgeboard he booted from 1.3 or 2.0.4.

I just read this..... THIS IS MY PROBLEM!!!

[wbrejnia]

Now we have some scenarios:
Scenario A/Scenario B:/Scenario C:/Scenario D
Scenario E (wins)
1) Boot Amiga from floppy and run PCDISk
2) it initializes Bridgeboard ad activate ISA Slots
3) PC boots from C: partition on Hard Disk mounted on ISA Controller
4) JDisks make Amiga aware it exists virtual partitions files JH0: JH1: Etcetera upto 7 on PC Hard Disk partition C:
5) Amiga can transfer system from Floppy to JH0: as Dandy says, just as like any other Amiga real Hard Disk DH0: but it requires some time to boot and make all virtual partitions JF-X: visible back to Amiga side
6) Amiga will use JH0: As any normal real Hard Disk for the entire time of the session (remember it requires partitioning and formatting).

Scenario E is what would make me happy for many reasons.  Overcoming challenge is #1 priority.

But right now I want things to work, so I have choices for Final setup.

I haven't installed Gotek yet since too busy playing with RLL HD, ISA-IDE.

What I want is a Hard Drive on the Amiga 8088 PC side to Boot DOS from ISA-IDE /IDE-Drive (I want to sell the RLL&Controller).  Run Windows 2.0 (Real old Retro Feel) and maybe some MS DOS whatever (a classic DOS game or two).

BUT NO 5.25" Floppy needed for DOS PC boot.  Maybe even Amiga Explorer running from my ISA Serial Card to Amiga Serial Port (Null Modem) to demonstrate ADF extract/Import and Serial communication.

Then on Amiga Side, Gotek is good enough for Booting games.
For Amiga Workbench it could be Gotek but access to Amiga PC Hard drive would be a nice (BUS-to-BUS BRIDGING WORKS) demonstration.

All above just working to show a Demo of Old Technology, but still used basic concepts/principles of serial/parallel communication, bit, bytes, handshaking, interfacing, etc.

I might donate A2000 to my sons High School they have a computer/robotics lab and learn basic concepts in Grade 10 which he is in.

Kind of like when they do Photography course they start with taking Film Photography and developing their own Paper B&W photos.

I could always come by a visit the A2000, seeing the kids amused by the A2000 and taking 20-Mpix Photos of it.
(Each photo on their Pocket phones a big as my Whole Hard RLL Hard Drive which holds 2 Operating systems and some SW proven useful years ago).
The Amiga 8088 screen PC resolution equivalent their photo thumbnail on their phone.
As they laugh at A2000, push the Gotek selector and run a Copy of Galaga or Galaxian with the Epyx Joystick (That will stop them laughing and appreciate Gaming History).

If RLL drive doesn't sell then donate it too,  Remove HD Top Metal Coverbox and put a Plexiglass shield replacement on it to see it Disks Spin an Heads move, just like the robots they build in class.

BUT FIRST I Have to swap the Kickstart ROMs while I pray.

[wbrejnia]

Starting take apart A2000 for ROM chip swap, and Battery Install.

Here is one of RLL Drive Analysis Reports.  All the other passed just as well.

[ Norton Calibrate ] One test scared me, since so aggressive with the Head Motion Rapid swings!!

                             Norton Utilities, 6.01
                   

                            *************************
                            *  Report for Drive C:  *
                            *************************

                               LOGICAL DISK INFORMATION
                     -----------------------------------------
                        Media Descriptor:  F8
                         Large Partition:  No
                                FAT Type:  16-bit
                           Total Sectors:  63,336
                          Total Clusters:  15,794
                        Bytes Per Sector:  512
                     Sectors Per Cluster:  4
                       Bytes Per Cluster:  2,048
                          Number of FATs:  2 (PCdos) (AmigaDOS)
                     First Sector of FAT:  1
               Number of Sectors Per FAT:  62
                First Sector of Root Dir:  125
           Number of Sectors in Root Dir:  32
           Maximum Root Dir File Entries:  512
               First Sector of Data Area:  157


                            PHYSICAL DISK INFORMATION
                     -----------------------------------------
                            Drive Number:  80
                                   Heads:  4
                               Cylinders:  609
                       Sectors Per Track:  26
                           Starting Head:  0
                       Starting Cylinder:  5
                         Starting Sector:  1
                             Ending Head:  3
                         Ending Cylinder:  613
                           Ending Sector:  26

                                RELIABILITY TESTS
                     -----------------------------------------
                      System Memory Test:  Passed
                       Controller Memory: Passed
                  Controller Reliability:  Passed
                            Disk Mapping:  Passed
                    Allocation Integrity: Passed
                     Diagnostic Cylinder:  Passed
                        High Speed Timer:  Passed
                               CMOS Test:  Passed

                                   SEEK TESTS
                     -----------------------------------------
                      BIOS Seek Overhead:     5.44 ms
                          Track-to-Track:    13.90 ms
                             Full Stroke:    92.51 ms
                            Average Seek:    51.91 ms

                               ENCODING TECHNOLOGY
                     -----------------------------------------
                              Drive RPMs:   3,612
                            Sector Angle:   13.45ø
                         Controller Type:      XT
                           Encoding Type:     RLL

                                 INTERLEAVE TEST
                     -----------------------------------------
                          Interleave        Revolutions
                         ------------      -------------
                              1:1               26  
                              2:1               27  
                              3:1               28  
                              4:1               28  
                              5:1                5 (Optimal, and Tool Auto Adjusted the Hard Drive)  
                              6:1                6  
                              7:1                7  
                              8:1                8  

                            Current Interleave is 4:1
                            Optimal Interleave is 5:1

SURFACE TEST STATUS
                     -----------------------------------------
                                  Test Summary
                             ----------------------
                   Pattern Testing Level:  Standard Testing (40 patterns)
                          New Interleave:  5:1
Correctable Sectors:  0
                   Uncorrectable Sectors:  0

                      No Errors encountered in Surface Test
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[wbrejnia]

Dandy,
I have comments and answers to all your detailed points.
I will hold off for now till I get that original KS1.2 ROM back in.
I'm hoping my answers will change.
I took screenshots of every test and procedure like Lo format.
EVen short movies of the boot behavior of HD.
So I will be able to clearly compare things.
One more day for downgrade I don't want to rush battery replacement install.

Wally

[wbrejnia]

My A2000 with Kickstart 3.1 rom and Workbench 3.9 works fine with it's Bridgeboard.

Maybe matching kickstart to workbench is the key.

I am running 3.1 kickstart and 1.3 workbench.

And does you setup work with access to HD on ISA slot side.
Does Aread and Awrite work from one side to other?

[wbrejnia]

Before I start the A2000 take apart I am going to try the copy of workbench 3.1

When i tried it only once two years ago I didn't set up things for Bridgeboard like including JANUS.library in the EXPANSION folder.

I just wanted to see the new Kickstart RoM working. I already gave up on the hardrive.

I am not even sure

Could it be possible that the removed libraries from ROM are on wORkbench 3.1 to make things work?

We'll see.

[wbrejnia]

I booted WB 3.1, and put in BB install disk.
A simply drag and Drop of JANUS.library wasn't possible since no space on WB3.1 disk.
Too complicated and I'm asking for Trouble.
Getting WB 3.1 working with Bridgeboard will be later.

Best just to take apart A2000 and put in Kickstart 1.2 ROM (Much safer from a OS perspective, [compatibility]).

[wbrejnia]

[ KICKSTART 1.2 ROM Installed ] [ Coin Battery Next ]

The original Kickstart ROM has been put back.

Now I'm working on Battery Replacement.

I want it to look tidy, and I have a few Color Choices for mini Breadboard.
I got a bunch of multi-colored mini breadboard from Aliexpress a while ago for 50 cents each.
I knew they would come in handy.


I did a too good job removing that Battery Cleanly.
Wish I left some metal exposed.  Hoping I can Solder/Push the solid wires thru.

I don't want to remove the whole Circuit board to get underneath.

[wbrejnia]

I use a hard file on the A2000.
On the Sidecar the harddisk is split in an Amiga and DOS partition.
I have never used Aread and Awrite, so not sure if that works.

So you have a Hard Drive on the A2000 Side?  What Kind?  How?

[wbrejnia]

Amiga 2000 Replacement Battery Holder installed.

That Minus Side I cut too clean when removing battery.  Solder didn't grip.
Lucky it was Ground, so  I just tapped into another GND spot on MB.

Picked the Green Breadboard.  Little bit of Hot Glue and it's done.



Next is:

- Put A2000 back together
- Test the Battery Holder Connections (Voltage Check)
- Cross my fingers/toes and boot up BB Workbench and hope for some Good Luck (with original Kickstart ROM)

[wbrejnia]

I saw that Battery unit on AmigaKit.   Almost ordered it before finding coin holder at surplus store.

Nice, but goes on Motherboard and hard to get to battery (after Drive Cage goes back).
My coin battery holder would also fit perfectly on the motherboard. All I would have to do is solder in the tiny diode on the backside. (Diode is only thing on PCB)
But to solder either I would have to take out the motherboard to solder from the backside (didn't want to risk doing the MB takeout)

The breadboard is solidly in place (easy access for replacing battery 11 years from now ).  Plus can take out battery if I want to.
(Coin batteries can also leak, damaging the mother board.  This is safer)

 I glue gunned all the components, wires on the Breadboard. (after taking that picture).  Nothing is going to move.  Can peel off soft glue if I want to.

This is just power, not high speed data connection. (Actually there isn't any high speed data in this A2000 much anywhere! )
So will be quite fine for permanent setup. (Total cost $5 with battery)

I'm actually thinking of doing something similar for the Kickstart ROM Chip, which also hard to get to.
I know AmigaKit sells a nice switcher that will flip Chips using [CTRL]-[AMIGA]-[AMIGA] keys.


But a simple dummy chip (found it in my parts box)-> wired to ribbon cable extender to a 2nd easy access socket/breadboard will keep me happy.


But that's a possible, later project, if I really need/want dual kickstart ROMs.

[wbrejnia]

One neat hack, is that you can use a 1MB Eprom and burn 3 Kick start images to a single chip,  and install a 3 way switch or jumper to select between the starting addresses for each kickstart.  

http://bax.comlab.uni-rostock.de/en/hardware/amiga500/kickstart-eprom/

Ive tried it with my programmer and it works fine.  (:

Now that is COOL!!!

[wbrejnia]

Booted with KICKSTART 1.2 (Original ROM) (** A ton of clues **)

So with the KICKSTART 1.2 ROM in place things are certainly different.

- FIRST, those Workbench disk that I thought were Totally corrupt and were crashing (ARE NOT CRASHING!!!) they Load!!

- I have to rebuild some new Workbench 1.2 Disks and Load up Bridgeboard Software.

BUT THIS what I get when I try to start with that original Working DISK Labelled  "AMIGA/PC"



** JANUS Handler Not Loaded !! Interesting **


- So looks like the true error message I was missing on the other Kickstart ROM.

Does this mean the Bridgeboard is BAD?  Probably not.  It's SW or something else.

- And what's interesting if I click on the PC WINDOW (8088 PC boots DOS6.2 up from the 5.25" Floppy)
** BUT the BRIDGEBOARD PC, is still having that C: Drive MBR pick up problem **

Does this mean I just need some disk fix up (who know what I did to it 2 years ago)
What I mean disk fix up.  It start Workbench built from Scratch Clean.

*** AT WHAT's really interesting, is the Bridgeboard install Manual SPECIFICALLY SAID I need to set 8088 PC memory to E000 for my 8088 bridgeboard (( A MUST, highlighted in the manual ))**  
*** When I had other Kickstart ROM, It kept defaulting to D000, and I couldn't change it VIA PC-Preferences, because PC-Preferences would CRASH attempt change to E000
**** I just tried the change NOW, and it worked Perfectly, It's set to E000 as it should be.  Maybe next boot might be good.

Lot's of work ahead of me.
At least I have the original Setup that used to work.

[wbrejnia]

** WOW !!! ***  Many of my 3.5" Floppy GAMES I thought the were AGE-CORRUMPTED are now working

When I was going thru my box of Original GAME disks, many of them were not working (INSTANTLY CRASHED the Amiga)

I was considering Formatting them to use as empty disks!! (since I thought they were bad)
Glad I left them alone.  They are working with the KICKSTART 1.2 (I recently read that some games won't work on higher kickstart ROM).  I have a bunch.

Super Cool, my Game Collection has just doubled.

Will be able to load up that GOTEK with some (Rare Games) if some of they are not available for Download.