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Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #254 on: February 14, 2017, 07:32:07 AM »
ALL DOS Image Dumps Done!!   Forget the Amiga Partition.

When I was reading up for the Format I came across the Jumper Setting of the WD Controller.


http://www.coleskingdom.com/files/WD1002.TXT

Playing with these might enable me to put the Controller into the 486 without it hanging due to Other Controller Conflict.  
(Wish I payed attention to this last time I read the manual...Should be in the Dummy Book)


Plus I don't really know what to put into these (two) the LL-Format parameters (rrr ppp).


Must read up before I destroy the Drive.
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #255 on: February 14, 2017, 06:08:12 PM »
Raffaele,

One of those links was very useful. (This piece of info)

MFM (ST412 interface)  Finally, the MFM drives and their associated drive types are next.  If the internal drive type table lists the exact geometry, great. If  not, then check to see if a "Custom" or "User Definable" CMOS option  is available. Also, some AT 16-bit MFM controllers provide an  onboard BIOS which will allow the unique geometry of the drive to be  dynamically configured (our Seagate ST21M/22M MFM controllers have  this VALUABLE feature). Otherwise, a drive type match that is close  but not exceeding either the cylinder or head values is the only  choice left.  An exact match in the head count is definitely  preferred when getting a "close" match.

My WD controller HAS THAT DYNAMIC Option, but I don't really know what it means.  Can't hurt to try it.

I found this one guy formatting his ST-506 Drive which is the same ST type, but different Geometry.  He used this

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I modified the entry for drive #7 (unused) to match the ST-506 as follows:
9900 (153 cylinders)
04 (4 heads)
8000 (reduced write current starts at cyl 128)
8000 (WPC starts at cyl 128)

0B (ECC burst)
00 (step rate = 3 ms)
FF (drive-ready timeout)
FF (format timeout)
FF (general timeout)
00 (always 00)
00 (always 00)
00 (always 00)
00 (always 00)

I also had to modify an unused byte (near the end) to take the 8 bit checksum to 00.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think think my best guess is for my KL330 Otagan RLL Drive:

ccc = Total number of cylinder [ 615 ]
h = number of heads [ 4 ]
rrr = starting reduce write current cylinder [ 128 ]
ppp = write precomp cylinder [ 128 ]
ee = max correctable burst length, default=11bits [11 ]
o = step rate, range(0-7, default=5)  [3 ]

My case ANSWER TO BIO Dynamic Format Question:

615 4 128 128 11 3 (CR)


But the manual says the Controller BIO may include standard Drive Types.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
In    order to continue, you will need to know the parameters    of your          drive.  For your convenience, we have prepared a list of common hard       disk drives and their parameters.     By returning to the previous        menu, you may access the drive list.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think whatever I do won't damage drive.  I can try again till I get formatting write.  That's what people have done, when they know nothing about their HD.

Rafaelle, yes the Hard drive Sector 0-6 is unreadable where MBR is.
That is the problem.  If I try 10 times, I get a partial read.
When I write back, it works a bit but not stable enough to load Filesystem and activate a C: drive.

Low Level Format will fix that.
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #256 on: February 14, 2017, 06:13:09 PM »
I AM NOT GOING TO MOVE (RLL Drive and controller to 486).  

What if I damage it, then I have nothing left for my AMIGA and AMIGA PC, since it appears that ISA/IDE Adapter won't work.

BTW. I have a great joke to play on my friend who lent me the 486.
I'll remove his two IDE drives.  Put in the ISA/Adapter with Flash card on ribbon cable.  Flash Card hidden.
I'll tell him I sold the two OLD drives on Ebay $500 each and he can have back the Empty Case with Motherboard.
But It will boot up, with all OS installed, faster than ever.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 06:16:02 PM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #257 on: February 14, 2017, 06:29:50 PM »
I AM READY TO FORMAT THE RLL DRIVE SAFELY
with best guess BIOS options


 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #258 on: February 14, 2017, 09:12:39 PM »
FIRE EXTINGUISHER NOT NEEDED

Low Level FORMAT WORKED :)

I have a C: drive

Partitioned, and now fomatted with DOS installed:)
(Haven't tested C: drive boot yet) (Haven't created Amiga Partition with Adisk command yet)

DYNAMIC LL-Format method worked [No errors], but Drive was having Spotty Read Access doing FDISK.
 I did NON Dynamic.  And it worked better.

I NOTICE on FDISK (My DRIVE IS 1 CYLINDER LESS than before) so LL-Format De-allocated the 1-st Bad CYLINDER


For future reference this Thread gives all the details on RLL & MFM Drives and WD-Controller Parameters for LL-Format:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-9484.html
What I also read in above is how HARD DRIVES store bad areas somewhere on the On-Board Controller.  Either in a special hidden area on disk, or in Eprom.
Thus the missing Cylinder!!

Right now I'm running some DOS DISK ANALYSIS tools that I couldn't use since I never had a C: drive.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 09:36:47 PM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #259 on: February 14, 2017, 09:36:25 PM »
C: Drive Scans done.  (READ/WRITE) tests come back 100% clean.

Rebooted Amiga-PC without Floppy, but still wants Floppy for boot
??

Time to RE-READ the AMIGA Bridgeboard Manual and do all the setup steps.

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
:)  I have to admit, I am in very good Spirits at this point..  :)
:)  Even though I spent a few dollars on some extra parts.:)
:)  No big deal, I can sell them as a Retro kit of some sort..:)
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

Onward!!

« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 09:55:05 PM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #260 on: February 15, 2017, 01:51:47 AM »
COULD THIS WORK? (If so, then Super!)

If I can jumper the WD controller to work side by side with the ISA/IDE-CF-Adapter, then I could possibly have a D: drive that is Compact Flash Driven.

This would make SW install's a breeze since I could Write to C-Flash and pop in whatever I need into the D: drive.

So the ISA/IDE adapter doesn't have to work as a recognized C: drive.
I'm hoping the Bridgeboard recognizes the ISA/IDE Adapter (AFTER getting the C: Drive into Bridgeboard BIOS/DOS)

I've contacted Steve Pierce from Lo-Tech, and my Adapter Seller from Ebay if this is possible.
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #261 on: February 15, 2017, 02:29:46 AM »
Quote from: Raffaele;822175
Amiga Kickstart 1.2 can't boot from Hard Disks... Only Kickstart 1.3 and above machines can. If I remember well you said your A2000 is 1.2.
This is not to boot the AMIGA, off a Hard Drive on the Amiga Side.
(Plus I used to have Kickstart 1.2, I upgrade to Kickstart version 40.63 O.S. 3.1)

This is to boot the 8088 PC off it's C: Drive (MSDOS).

The Amiga will eventually Boot of the PC D: or E: drive, when I get the Amiga Setup thru the Bridgeboard (using DJmount etc)..
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #262 on: February 15, 2017, 03:23:10 AM »
Quote from: Raffaele;822138
Infos on Old Hard Disk Formatting:

http://ftp://ftp.seagate.com/techsuppt/misc/drivetyp.txt


(This is very interesting as refers to internal controller CMOS that have various types HDDS definition it it and maybe CUSTOM Option also defining the one that users mounted. If you alter that value, you are unable to read partitions as if you entered valid but alien geometry parameters.
I remember I encountered such a problem once on a PC by a Peecee friend.)

http://www.hirensbootcd.org/200-ways-to-revive-a-hard-drive/1/

-> The Seagate tool looks handy.  Will add that to my toolbox.
-> The 2nd like has some funny, and some good tips.  I used some of the good ones.

BTW.   I wrote many posts ago, that I read that a Low Level Format would only refresh the tracks on the disk and not wipe out the contents.
 NOT TRUE AT ALL (at least for the WD BIOS LL Formatter).  
I just checked the Drive after the LL Format, and even the Amiga Paritition which I didn't FORMAT Logically, is nothing but "00 00 00 00 00 00 00"
So NOT DOING that LL-Format go me my school paper back.

ALSO: Now that Drive is formatted and working. I reviewed the first Sector Using DiskEdit. That is where the MBR is.  Before I formatted the First Sector was unreadable (most of the time) and DISKedit would just show Zeros (=Not Readable).  So my problem the whole time was MBR was corrupt.
But I got a copy of the DOS Partition (minus the MBR), so if I wanted to, I could write back all the sectors, and see what the DOS drive looked like. (Not worth the effort).

LASTLY ** IMPORTANT* :  Never run "ADISK" on a corrupt disk where MBR is not readable.  That message that says it will write a boot record after hitting any key, and there is no way to stop it, unless you power off.  Writes a new MBR for a Partition covering the WHOLE DISK. It just happened once to me after LL-Format but I had a empty drive.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 03:31:40 AM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #263 on: February 15, 2017, 07:27:43 AM »
I'M STUCK!!!

I wish I had access to a (FULLY WORKING) 2nd AMIGA 2000 with 8088 Bridgeboard and a Hard Drive on the PC Side.
TO COMPARE how things should work, and what the boot sequence looks like. (and what HW(rom)/SW versions are running for each piece)

I am totally guessing how things should work, making all kinds of theories in my head as to why this or that doesn't work. (Crazy theories listed below)

( saw that one video but guy was  moving camera around too much)
(Going to look for anyone showing how a  8088 Bridgeboard setup works)  ** Must be 8088 Bridgeboard, since 286 things are a bit different with HD support.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically I tried to follow the steps in the Bridgeboard and I got to the point where I FORMAT the AMIGA PARTION[on the RLL drive] from the AMIGA-OS.

The command is "FORMAT DRIVE JH0: NAME "AmigaOS"
It comes back with an error message:

format failed -
cannot find handler

** WHAT DOES THAT MEAN **

Prior to running this command I do run "DJmount ffs" or even tried "DJmount" (what bothers me is this command produces no message).

I understand that JH0: (is a harddisk) is a device like FD0: (is a floppy disk)

I checked that:
[Janus.library] is in the (df0:Expansion) folder
[JDdisk.device] is in the (df0:devs) folder

Basically everything is in place for the Communication across the bridgeboard.
Things are working in General Independantly, except for the Special (CROSS BRIDGEBOARD FEATURES)



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have these clues as to what could be wrong
(since NOT working properly):

- The RLL Hardisk C: partition doesn't boot (DOS).   It should.
-----> The disk is good (100%).  Partitioned Active. Formatted with the /S switch.
- The Awrite / Aread commands on PC side (to copy from/to Amiga Side) don't work (last time I tested)
- I noticed that the DJMOUNT command on my newest disk, and the OLD OLD working DISK is different file size. (both work, newer one takes longer to run)

*** Mystery CLUE **.  I checked out the TWO original Working Workbench disks.  They are fine except for few read errors.
  ***  But as soon as I put them into the Drive after Amiga Cold Boot the system Crashes, Software error
*** Is that incopatibility with KICKSTART 3.1 ROM?  Older workbench?
  *** I want to clone those original disks somehow.  Make a new BOOTABLE and copy everything off the original disks (different DJMOUNT, etc, etc)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-IS THE BRIDGEBOARD FAULTLY? (Why no error messages)?
-IS my Bridgeboard Workbench disk wrong? (why no error message)?

-IS that Kickstart ROM I upgraded the problem?

---->(Should I put back the KS1.2 like the Amiga used to be ?)  
*** IS THE autoBoot feature in Kickstart 3.1 a problem for Bridgeboards?  
*** Did Amiga Developer take something out since who would use a 8088 for Hard Drive access.


---->(Should I go back to Workbench 1.2 like the Amiga Used to be?)

---->(I'm using DOS6.2 on PC side, Maybe go DOS 3.1.   Manual talks just DOS, and windows 1/2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really don't know what to do next to complete a flexible Dual Booting Hard Disk Driven system (which would be Nice!! and worth loading SW on)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I could give up and just go ahead with the GOTEK install which would leave me with a pretty good setup.


A) Workbench used to Boot from slow unreliable Floppies
-----> Replaced by GOTEK

B) PC Boot used to boot from Floppy and that's all I had
-----> Now I have a hard drive, so floppy is just needed to Boot "Command.com",
-----> the C:config.sys, and C:autoexec.bat and everything else could be on C: drive (I tried it, it works)
-----> Kind of sucks,that I have a working DOS Bootable 5.25" disk in the drive.  ((*MUST BE FIXED*), Maybe Compact Flash when it comes.


Any ideas?
(contact that German Bridgeboard expert?)

« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 07:49:44 AM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #264 on: February 15, 2017, 08:16:51 AM »
I just got an IDEA (that won't work because I tested part of this before)

Let's reverse things!! (To solve the 5.25" boot disk requirement)

- In the bridgeboard manual (if you have an Amiga hard disk, but no PC hard disk), you can boot the PC from a Virtual DISK files on the AMIGA HD.

In a normal situation the VIRTUAL FILE would be a WHOLE PC C: Drive parition.  But a 3.5" 880K Workbench Floppy doesn't have room.

a) I create a small file on my WORKBENCH DISK (could be a file on DF0: or even a file on my external DF2:)

BB-Manual says file can be anywhere.  DISK, RAMDRIVE, so long as the file is permanent, and Read/Writeable.

b) inside that FILE is JUST enough to have a C: drive partition (bootable with A)
c) I re  LL-FORMAT the RLL drive as a D: drive with DOS files (but not bootable)

Here is how things would work: (if my bridgeboard and setup is ok)

A) I put in the WORKBENCH DISK
B) AMIGA BOOTS UP with the VIRTUAL C: Drive File on it.
C) PC Boots C: drive from that VIRTUAL DRIVE
d) But after command.com load (D: drive is used for everything else)

This would eliminate the 5.25" Bootable Floppy drive in the AMIGA PC.

*** BUT THIS WON't Work, because something is wrong with BRIDGEBOARD (AMIGA-PC and PC-AMIGA) Communication.
*** SOMETHING TO DO WITH JANUS



I am putting this Link I got above since it talks about JANUS versions, and tools to setup the CROSDOS.
(Plus a mention what files have to be where for Janus to work)
(and mention of some new Janus Setup Tool)
http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herold/computing/amiga/bridgeboard_faq.htm
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 08:19:08 AM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #265 on: February 15, 2017, 08:49:23 AM »
Hi Dandy,

Welcome back, it's been a while.

I am going to start from Scratch on my WOrkbench Disk for my bridgeboard.  (NOW THAT ALL HW is working)

All the Software JAnus etc is old stuff I played with two years ago.
Back then I didn't have a good working PC HARD DIsk so I hacked and hacked to try an get it working.
Maybe I'm NOW USING mixed versions of SW to make that disk FINALLY work.  So I need to take a step back on my Software.
(That is why things are not working Across the Bridgeboard.  Why Awrite and Aread don't work.  Why format JH0: across the bridgeboard doesn't work)

I think this may be the final missing piece.


Here are all the DISKS in one place.
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt
I am gong to get them ALL, and start a fresh Workbench DIsk Build
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 08:53:57 AM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #266 on: February 15, 2017, 02:32:52 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;822198
The manual says that autoboot from a virtual drive is disabled if you have a real harddrive in the bridge board.

Why can't you boot the PC from the PC hard drive?

I'm not sure using the PC hard drive as an Amiga partition is a good idea, the speed will be terrible.
The PC Hard drive does work.  C: drive fully visible.  Formatted, Active [I can run programs from it] and ready to boot, but it doesn't (I believe the Auotboot has nothing to do with PC hard drive, that is booting from an Amiga Hard drive).

Why the PC won't boot is the mystery I wish to solve.   Shouldn't have anything to do with JANUS (but I could be wrong).

This has nothing to do with Speed for the Amiga Side (but having 21 MB) for a workbench would be nice.  Better than a Floppy.  If I install Gotek that will make things better, but has it's limitations.

Part of the whole purpose it to get the Amiga / Amiga PC fully working for the novelty, and overcoming the Challenge.
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #267 on: February 15, 2017, 02:42:42 PM »
LoTech ISA/IDE-CF Adapter update (Possible solution)

I got an reply for James Pearce of LoTech.

I asked him if I could put in the ISA/IDE Compact Flash adapter, into the AMIGA PC Side (in parallel) with my Western Digital Controller for the RLL drive.

-> This would give me a  D: drive on the AmigaPC.
-> The WD/RLL drive would remains a C: drive (which is working except for auto-boot part)

For a better storage solution (using Flash Card as a way of getting Software In/Out of the PC)

It would eliminate all the Floppy disk transfers, and give me a Ton of flexible storage.
[FONT="]
Quote from James:
Yes it should work.[/FONT]
[FONT="]set the WD controller to be just itself. Likely it uses C800 for its ROM.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The ISA USB adapter will use D800 for the ROM and needs IO Port 300h free. That should be all that is needed.[/FONT]
 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #268 on: February 15, 2017, 07:49:45 PM »
Dandy,

If you have a copy of SYSINFO, can you run it an see if there is some process running on AMiga Side related to Bridgeboard, like JANUS or DJMOUNT.

This is my Amiga (when I click on DRIVE, I only see floppies DF0: DF2: )

 

Offline wbrejniaTopic starter

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Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #269 from previous page: February 15, 2017, 08:26:59 PM »
[HOW TO (Solve/Determine/Isolate) why C: drive Doesn't Boot in AMIGA PC]

The same way I solve the ISA/IDE Adapter ISA HD drive pickup.

I'll put the WD-RLL Controller and Drive into the 486.
It should boot C: drive from there with Partition and Boot DOS installed.

Just like the ISA/IDE Adpater does in there with the IDE-2 Hard Drive.

A) If IT BOOTS, the it the AMIGA PC
B) if it DOES NOT BOOT then it the RLL Drive

Might be something to do with ISA Addressing.  (Those jumpers on the WD controller Card)
Hey, I'm just guessing, since I have no hard facts to go on.
 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 08:30:23 PM by wbrejnia »