**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Since I'm stuck with the ISA/IDE adapter, I'm thinking about getting a IDE/SD card like below.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not that expensive, but it will get me all setup on the Amiga PC side.
 
 There are Compact Flash and SD versions.    I have a few old CF cards 4,32,256MB.  For SD I have larger sizes.
 
 Is there an possible PROBLEM using the Larger SD version for the A2000?  (Like with FDISK not like a 1GB SD)

[wbrejnia]

Still have to find this manual and the `Appendix`...

These are the two Bridgeboard Guides on the NET (thanks to Darkage in post above)
-
The PDF Scan of the Original Paper Bridgeboard Manuals(One German and One English - with the Appedix and FDISK)
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt (On this site you can also get the BB disks images)


Here is the AmigaOS Manual (where I read about the MOUNTLISTS and where they are placed, and Read at Boot time.)
http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_AmigaDOS_Additional_Amiga_Directories

I am pretty sure PC Side supports Hard disks.

But here is what I was looking at that caught my attention. I think this a MountList on the AMIGA side (ONLY), for a HDD on Amiga Side, that can be accessed from PC Side.

(Example MOUNTLIST)

/* vi:ts=8
*
* Change LowCyl, HighCyl, Surfaces, BlocksPerTrack and Unit
* to suit your hard drive (run DISKINFO DHx: to see the details
* for a given partition)
*/
PCD: FileSystem = l: pcdisk-handler
Device = scsi.device
Unit =
Flags = 0
LowCyl = ; HighCyl =
Surfaces =
BlocksPerTrack =
Buffers = 5
BufMemType = 0
BootPri = 0
Stacksize = 4096
Priority = -5
GlobVec = -1
Reserved = 2
Mount = 1
#
/*
* See docs for more info about this entry
*/
IBM: Device = scsi.device
Unit =
Flags = 0
Surfaces = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 32
Reserved = 0
Interleave = 0
LowCyl = ; HighCyl =
FileSystem = L:MSDOSFileSystem
Stacksize = 4000
Priority = 5
GlobVec = -1
DosType = 0x4D534400
Buffers = 5
BufMemType = 1

All that Drive Parameter information could be used by the Amiga-side.
For the PC side, the FDISK/DOS holds that somehow.

( I still have to go thru ALL my Workbench disk and look for /DEV/.. Files and any MOUNTLIST files for clues)
Haven't had time.

[wbrejnia]

The same at http://bboah.amiga-resistance.info/cgi-bin/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=328:
"This card may have been supplied with a 360K 5.25" floppy drive however the card can also use a real external Amiga floppy drive, to read 720K DOS disks."

From the schematics at your "GERMAN Electronic Version" link I`m beginning to understand:
- The Amiga 2000 has Zorro-II slots and ISA-slots (pre-PCI age) on the motherboard (partially in line).
- The card plugs into both a Zorro slot and an ISA slot and so allows you to use real 8bit ISA cards in the ISA slots of your A2000, which are disabled by default and can only be activated and `linked` to the Amiga`s Zorro bus by a "bridgeboard" (hence the name). This allows you to use a MFM ISA controller card with MFM harddrive in your Amiga.
- According to the German Amiga wiki (http://www.amigawiki.de/doku.php?id=de:expansion:other:a2088xt), the German Commodore engineers in Braunschweig designed the PC/XT on the bridgeboard strictly in line with the original IBM 8088 XT/PC specifications.

And as far as I remember, the original IBM 8088 XT/PC only had two 5 1/4 360 kB floppy disk drives by default - no harddrive. That means you cannot use a harddrive with the XT/PC on your A2088XT bridgeboard - just the Amiga can access the drive via the bridgeboard and the MFM controller in the ISA slot.

Therefore I do not believe there is any M$-Dos related stuff on your drive - just Amiga stuff, I`d say...

Sorry for the bad news...

You understand this much better than me.
 I think you might be right.  I probably only ran FLOPPIES on PC dos side for school MATLAB programs.  The rest was the Amiga Workbench of HDD.
 
 That is good news since I can stop looking for a DOS solution and focus on the Amiga side.  That means I have a Amiga Workbench with lots of goodies installed.  That is better (more fun stuff, maybe games too !!
 
 And when my ISA card arrive, I can build an Amiga with a Hard Drive, even if my MFM Card/Drive is broken.  If not broken, I can sell it.

[wbrejnia]

Dandy,

You may be right about the XT and no Hard Drive.

And yes the Bridgeboard only has a Floppy Drive Connector.

But when I plug in my WD Controller Card into the ISA Slot, that enabled a Hard drive on the PC side. I have proved I can access my Hard Drive BIOS with the MS DOS "DEBUG"

And below the Bridgeboard specs show this (SHARED between the 2088 and 2286 Bridgeboards)

[wbrejnia]

Thanks Pat....We are all on the same page.

THE BRIDGEBOARD Supports HD with a Controller Card in ISA SLOT, just like the XT did.

I just got an email that my 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter just got shipped.

Can't wait for it to arrive.

Not much to do till then (except read and go thru my WB disks for clues. Make some fresh copies of everything for the future NEW install).

Will that IDE/CF card work? I'll order one. Cheap for the value it will bring.

[wbrejnia]

*******************************************************************************
** THINGS ARE NOT GOING WELL with my FIRST TRIAL (Jlink Virutual Drive : Appendix C (BB Manual). **
*****************************************************************************************

1) I tried the section in the BB manual (To create a VIRTUAL DRIVE) on the AMIGA FILE SYSTEM

I Properly run "ADISK" on the Amiga side.

I properly added DEVICE= JDISK.SYS into the MDOS Boot DISK CONFIG.SYS file.

It does load, since I even did a TYPO (Jbad.sys) and the Boot complains that file doesn't exist.

If I don't include that entry into CONFIG.SYS and run Jlink.exe (I get an error message saying (JDISK.SYS not installed: )

But then running JLINK hang on any switch (ie JLINK e: RAM:vd /C:160). Even tried JLINK by itself which should just list any VIRTUAL DRIVES. (160KB in minimal size, if you use 4 KB it complains)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought the RAM drive might not have enough space so I tried a trick to test if communication between PC and AMIGA is happening

1) I used notepad to CREATE a FILE on DF0: call "VM" full of text
2) I ran the command ( JLINK DF0:VM )
3A) According to the manual if the "VM" file exists on df0: then it should prompt you with (a question if you want to continue)
3B) But no PROMPT
3C) And no activity on DRIVE LED

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I even tried with MSDOS3.3 and MSDOS6.2 to be safe it's not my DOS version.

This should work since this is Simple Bridgeboard Functionality.

Dandy, If you have a Sidecar then can you try this an see if it works for you?

Pat, anyone, if your A2000 have a bridgeboard, can you try this?

Can this be tested on AmigaForever? (not the same but just to test)

** I even double reboot the systems when re-trying to make sure, and that takes a lot time **

I have no idea why this doesn't work, or what I could do to fix.

Next I'm going to try doing the (AREAD & AWRITE) as per the BB Manual (My hopes are low )

And if that doesn't work, my hopes for anything to work DROP (Till I figure out a root cause)

BURNING IN THE BACK OF MY MIND (is I should put back the Original Kickstart 1.2 ROM to match This Workbench 1.2, and my original HW setup.  MAYBE the BB I have has a BIOS that needs that Kickstart)

[wbrejnia]

@Wbrejnia

In your first post, when you originated the thread, you said HD woke up with loud click-click sound...

This make me think one of drive heads has gone.

Hard disk should had woke with noisy gentle whirl sound... Noisy, but sure gentle, not clicky...

I may have described the sound SOUND, and behavior wrong. It's not a CLICK, it's more like a Squeak. Loud because I'm comparing to today's Hard Drives.

The drive on power up does make the Gentle Whirl sound, and then the classic "squeak-squeak" sound of the drive head moving and parking.

I know that sound from years ago. Then things would go quiet as drive would spin-Huum quietly. Exactly the same now.

When the system was fully working years ago the "squeak-squeak" would continue as the drive did it's reading and writing. Many squeak-squeaks.
The way to imagine it is every time the HD LED would blink there would be a squeak.
The head moving Sound is very characteristic of that Octagon Drive. (LED BLINK=Squeak) (No blink, no squeak)

Right now everything is the same, except no further drive-reading-squeaks since there is no communication to the drive.

If I figure out how to get that drive recognized, that Squeak-SQueak-Squeak sound will be Music-to-My-Ears.

The DEBUG format would be one way to test out and hear the drive work again, but I'm not formatting the drive till I totally give up.

[wbrejnia]

One of my former Amiga friends, Giuseppe, has at parents home one working A2000 with Janus 386 board and both he owns a non functioning bridgeboard 486sx, and both cards are with complete disks and manuals in italian.
In that remote age I helped him replacing standard 5,25" Floppy with 3,5" frame model on PC side and he put ISA IDE board into PC side, so he had no any of your problems with HDDisks and floppies, but sure I will ask him for a image of the floppies.

Dunno when he could find some spare time to retrieve all the material back tough, so you must be patient.

Last night I decided to go through and organized my disk.
 
 I found all my Workbench 1.3 disks (All of them including INSTALL, FONTS, EXTRAS, and STORAGE).   On there I found many interesting tools, including HTtools.  I ran the HardDrive tools and it's all stuff for an Amiga Side Hard Drive.
 
 However if you friend has a copy of the DOS disk that came with the BB, that would be interesting to see the directory listing.   Especially the contents of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT if the exists.

[wbrejnia]

wow you went for it.. I wished I had a old XT to modernise for fun, but I sadly threw them out a long time ago.

wish you luck.

Yes I did (BY mistake, hitting [BUY IT NOW] to see shipping cost). Since I'm stuck with the unit, Yesterday I also ordered a IDE-USB flash drive from a local seller in Nearby, in Canada.

If this project doesn't work out, (AMIGA-to-PC Setup). I'll hope to at least get the 8088 PC side working standalone (booting on it own) without floppy, etc.
 
 I'll be PIMPING my Amiga PC  (Just like the YouTube Video you posted above)

[wbrejnia]

Last night I decided to go through and organized my disk.

I found all my Workbench 1.3 disks (All of them including INSTALL, FONTS, EXTRAS, and STORAGE). On there I found many interesting tools, including HTtools. I ran the HardDrive tools and it's all stuff for an Amiga Side Hard Drive.

However if you friend has a copy of the DOS disk that came with the BB, that would be interesting to see the directory listing. Especially the contents of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT if the exists.

So I'm getting concerned. This Old Magenetic media is aging. The 5.25" DOS diskettes' keep failing and I have to reformat them to work.

I am in the process of making duplicate copies of the many important disks I have.

But even then, many of my BLANK disks that I want to format for duplicate copies are aged, and about 1-5 are usable. I have plenty of not needed disks so keep try others, but loosing one disk that I can't find on WEB would be an issue.

To be safe I noticed I have magnetic screwdrivers and other Magentic stuff in my workarea. Have put everything away at a distance. Staying away from Power Supplies and CRT Monitors.

Rather then getting a box of new (3.5") floppies I'm consider a GOTEK USB drive (as suggestest in a post above)
Selling here in Canada (nearby seller) http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Amiga-USB-Floppy-Disk-Emulator-GOTEK-beige-w-8GB-USB-key-/182422877030?hash=item2a79403366:g:e1gAAOSwd2xXP8Oo

Are these easy to setup. It appears this one is Flash burned and ready to use on the A2000 (less work then flashing myself).

Do they just replace my current floppy (ribbon cable to A2000 Motherboard, even though Internal 3.5" has a crip type connector).

I would still have my External A1010 drive for real floppies, so would be a nice flexible working setup.

I assume I could boot ADF games disk and more, plus have access to all ADF copies of Workbench, Install, etc disks. (Considering I don't really have any choice for a Amiga Side Internal HD, without getting a Controller card and SCSI drive)

Would this setup allow me to boot off of External or Gotek and have access to a USB based library of disks? (Better than my Amiga Explorer PC and the slow transfers)


Any comments?

[wbrejnia]

Dandy,

Thank for your detailed analysis.

My mistake for a few very bad typos. I have to walk to one computer and back, and my typing is always bad.

Based on what you pointed out, I actually did everything correct.

I Ran PCDISK, Janus is in Expansion drawer on Amiga Side, JANUS libraries are loaded by Bridgeboard,, etc (Everything like the Manual says)

It is best that I show two important screenshots. Maybe even a YouTube Video next time.

1) First screenshot is a test I did to show DOS is loading JDISK.SYS

2) 2nd Screenshot shows that JLINK hangs
----> but it should show a prompt that the DF0:VM file is already there. Doesn't matter what kind of file. The prompt logic it to prevent you from overwriting a important file.

Jlink hangs no matter what command or /switch I try.

[wbrejnia]

I just stumbled upon this thread...
I only read it briefly, because it's a lot of posts.

As far as I understand you want to read an MFM harddisk connected to a bridgeboard in an Amiga 2000. I also have this setup and an A1000 with A1060 too. Both working! The A2000 with a hardfile (IIRC) and the Sidecar with a Filecard (Controller with MFM HDD).
In the A2000 I even have got an ISA NIC and I can access the internet on the Amiga side using the Etherbridge software.

I have been fiddling a very long time to get the A1000/1060 setup working. And it was just because of the floppy drive AND the HDD were bad. As soon as I got replacements it started working nice. I only had to disable a lot of bad blocks on the replacement drive. I used a software tool to know which blocks. You do not need any drivers.

I also tried one of those ISA/XT/IDE cards you mention. Unfortunately it did not work in the A1060. It worked in a PC.

So, if you still have any questions on how to setup, I maybe helpful. There is also an expert on bridgeboards on the German a1k.org. We could contact him if needed as I understand German.

A video to see the A1000/A1060 booting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PamfEkIbQU


Regards,
Leo

Leo,
Thanks for the video. Wish the video quality was better and more time spent on screen. But nice to see.

As far as your point on the "ISA/XT/IDE", it is for my Bridgeboard PC side.

If you read more above, you will understand that my Hard Drive is on PC side on a Controller in ISA slot. My goal is to see that PAIR from Amiga Side thru Bridgeboard.

I can communicate with Controller using Dos Debug (Controller BIOS Format Program).

Controller appears to be talking to DISK (since if I disconnect disk, BIOS program doesn't continue).

The whole purpose of getting the "IS/XT/IDE" card to replace my Controller/HD and see if I can get things working.

BUT THE BIGGEST MYSTERY for me is "IF CONTROLLER AND DISK are OK", and no DOS driver needed, why does DOS "Fdisk" not pick up C: drive (Formatted or not, corrupt data/sectors or NOT)?

The "IS/XT/IDE" card will solve that mystery.

[wbrejnia]

If you have a replacement MFM disk you can find out if the disk itself is the problem.

Getting a new MFM drive working isn't my goal. ( My goal is to possibly read the contents of my MFM disk if the Drive Contents are still good )

I have avoided running the LOW LEVEL FORMAT since I don't know it's characteristics (I have looked and found some info, but don't even know which model ALOK Octagan MFM disk I have I have since not Labelled anywhere).

If I did know characteristics I could LOW LEVEL FORMAT since as this link says it is NOT A "Regular DOS type FORMAT", it would only lay down the tracks and sectors (which I don't know what they are structure wise). Laying down incorrect tracks/sectors would destroy access to contents.
https://kb.iu.edu/d/aaoa

Another solution I found is a MFM reader like shown here https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml
But that is way too much work. Not sure it will work for $ spent. Still probably need DRIVE characteristics , and at the end I have nothing of value.

So goal is to figure out and get this A2000 Setup working, with some practice on the (ISA/XT/IDE Adapter)  with an (IDE Drive), or a (IDE Flash Drive), like a replacement MFM Disk.

At the end, I could use the improved AMIGA PC setup and throw out OLD MFM Drive.

[wbrejnia]

You've seriously misunderstood leofoe's post. He's trying to give you a clue that your current drive may be dead, and if so, you won't be recovering anything from it. And to determine if it's really dead, he's suggesting that you install a known good MFM drive to rule out problems elsewhere such as your controller card or a software issue. Basic troubleshooting.....

I clearly understood LEOFOE'S post.

I am VERY SURE my MFM Controller works.

I have no idea if my MFM drive is good but Controller talks to it and it responds.

Yes, a new (Validated working MFM) drive would be a good way to prove controller is working, and try all the step for a new MFM drive Partion, Format, etc

I may consider that, but what I see on Ebay is too expensive, non proof the MFM Drive is working or any better than mine.
 Another DRIVE type would not give me any information on my Drive Characteristics (Key Unknown) to LOW-LEVEL Reformat this drive (to get to my data).
 
 I am going to try and find the ALOK Octagon Model I have an LOW LEVEL FORMAT IT.   THERE Must be some way to figure out the model.

[wbrejnia]

http://redhill.net.au/d/9.php

I dont think there would be too many RLL/MFM Alok Octagan models. If its written anyware the number of heads, cylinders, sectors then you would be able to work out the capacity and narrow down the models. ?

Thanks Darkage, any info on KALOK Octacon Drive helps.

This is the best I found. http://www.mfarris.com/hard/Kalok.html (Even has details on one model, would be luck if mine!! ).

KALOK Made only 4 MFM Models (KL320,KL330,KL340,KL360) before they went out of Business, according to all my research.

Question is which is mine and what are the parameters [heads, cylinders, sectors] so I can Safely do a Low Level Format.
 
 (I assume I can't try all 4 parameters and not loose data).

This Photo is extra Large in case someone see's a clue for Model Type. ( Nothing written on sides)

[wbrejnia]

OH MY GOD!! The HARD DRIVE is Alive!

To get that Last Good Closeup Photo.

I took apart the Amiga, and removed the Hard Drive.

I looked closely at the drive and noticed the only Jumper there. I decided to carefully remove-and-put-back that DS1 jumper to ensure good contact before putting DRIVE back.

Then I decided to do more....

I also gave a wiggle push on those Power Connectors or whatever those connectors are on the drive.

During re-cabling of ribbon cables I wiped the contacts with some proper circuit board contact cleaner.

WHEN I POWERED UP THE AMIGA, my Heart Stopped when I noticed the DRIVE LED ON THE Drive Blinking during boot up (of Workbench Disk, during Janus Library Load).

Nice consistent pulses like something was happening.

I went Booted up the PC SIDE and booted the MS DOS DISK with the CONFIGS.SYS. More LED PULSES.

I tell you my hands were shaking as I typed in "ADISK" at the DOS PROMPT.

This is what I got When I hit



I just left the computer on after taking (Photo of Screen) above to write this post.

I need to Lie Down a bit, OR Go for a Walk Outside and think about next steps.

I'm still kind of shaky. Haven't peeked into OS on Amiga or PC.
 Things could be good.

This was a Amiga boot with one of my Hacked Workbench disks (One that I hacked over and over last night).

Oh my...

I can't believe this just happened!! (AFTER starting this Journey Over 2 years ago).